Quote from: Vector on March 24, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
(On a lighter note, me and my friends easily managed to fool our American neighbours that we belong to royal families and our parents are "maharajas" of certain provinces:giggle: )

Moreover, they get a shock of their lives when they hear us talking in english!! and wonder how come we could afford to travel soooo far away from home....if we had any!

But more than all this my friend, what hurts me is that India /Indians donot/never get the kind of recognition they deserve.Thats all.

Even our country is full with ignorant / simple people who believe any one and dont know anything out side thier area. No wonder there are people like them in US as well. There are then very smart people in US, who along with global citizen (Metropolitan) shaped the world as we see today.

Your points does not substantiates and answer to Augustinev , apart form that TG has a valid point. This is a technology forum. Lets keep the controversies of History, Arts, and religious belief/opinion aside when putting a facts. Every religion, culture and race takes as much pride on its own. Not every claim may be relevant in science views. 

There was no intention to create any sort of controversy here. It was a simple attempt to put some interesting facts before people.  
Things are getting out of hand here coz we are so reluctant to accept/belive/appreciete even little acheivements of our past history. And what has religion got to do with this
There are smart people in US..nobody is denying that, but the comman american is still oblivious abt the fact that India has made so much progress in todays times, that it has managed to become their closest(?) friend.
Why do we always begin to introspect..others seldom do so, they always push their own agenda in everything, be them wrong! " Jiski laathi...usiki bhais !" i guess.

Anyways, leave it to you all to decide..i had my say.

Amar bau take it down a couple of notches and start talking flying, and RC, not controversies . we are not some Loosechange dot com or something, strong words are better avoided. two reasons (a) people will listen to you if you are humble (b) you have absolutely no idea whom are you preaching in this cyber world,
i hope you are getting the drift. i implore, stay humble, we will learn from you , the community may have something to give you. Once again don't misunderstand me, Disclaimer, same as previous

PS
that is a good mid winger you have out there, does it drop wing in hover ?
is it alloutte ka bhai behan, you are flying, i flew some , deep in the arunachal valley, good quick stop it does, no ?

Augustinev, your post does not seem to have any correlation with Vector's last post

in general (not major , not lieutenant) just general  

Ps
your old avatar was better, suited SLS

I dont know just sounds strange when read as a thread. Just read his first line and your first line.
Then may be read your point (b).. If you catch my drift

Quote from: augustinev on March 24, 2011, 07:30:29 PM
your old avatar was better, suited SLS

I know, but this one is funny need a few days to get over it.

SunlikeStar, everyone is free to express their themselves, be it aggressively or anyhow & I m enjoying this more than before now....cyber world really seems to have taken a toll on some people.

I made a point, and it has been confirmed !

very much confirmed 

I missed this conversation. Late entrant.

These are the Significant instances of humans quest of flight, which have proper records and proves behind them and can be verified. Other than these they are many claims which can't be proved or verified.

First heavier than Air objects flown by Human are Kites which were flown in China way back in 500 B.C

First person to think of flying with help of machines is Leonardo DA Vinci (1452 to 1519)

First instance of heavier than Air manned flight  i.e is in their hot Air Balloon, was made by Montgolfier brothers of France around  the year 1743.

First person to identify four vector forces, Thurst, Drag, Lift and Weight, was George Cayley, (1773-1857)

William Henson(1812-1888) and John StringFellow (1799-1883)  could not fly their plane powered by a steam engine, because steam engine was too heavy for power it produced, but latter experiment showed, Ability of their plane to fly with proper power plant.

Maxim Hiram (1840-1916), who is also inventor of machine gun, flown his plane in 1894, but it didn't had proper means to control it.

Alexandr Fyodorovich Mozhaisky (1825-1890), This son of a Russian naval officer is thought to have flown his flying apparatus in around 1882, but their are no records of this flight. His studies of Aerodynamics and Propellers are quite significant.

Otto Lilienthal (1848 –1896)- This German Civil engineer was the first person who succeeded in repeatable glider flights in History. His methodology Jump to fly marked the beginning of era of human quest to fly. This was the person who has influenced Wright brothers a lot.

The Wright brothers, Orville (1871 – 1948) and Wilbur (1867 –1912): On 14th December 1903, Wilbur won a coin toss and made his first attempt to fly, he stalled it on take-off causing some minor damage to machine, it was repaired and now it was Orville's chance on December 17th at 10.35 A.M, he was first person to fly in a heavier than air, powered, controlled machine.

These are authentic instances in the history of Human's quest to fly, which can be verified. Other than these there are many claims from many people which can't be verified of authenticated.

( These are excerpts from my Philatelic Exhibit, for which I have posted a link else where on this fora. Extensive research for making this exhibit was done from various sources)

I hope sombody verifies this with HAL Bangalore.

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submit/history/alternative-history/ancient-indian-vimanas.html

"But more than all this my friend, what hurts me is that India /Indians donot/never get the kind of recognition they deserve.Thats all."

I want to agree with you here, and I have points to prove that.

1. Western Linguists started believing that Sanskrit is the Oldest Language in Indo-European, Language group, from which all the languages comes to which 60% of this blue planet population speaks, yes including English.

2. Western Historians starts to believe that Civilization which is Known by Harappa and MohanJodaro, which is one of the oldest and most developed civilization from it's time, is in fact is Saraswati river (this is same river which have many references in Vedas) Civilization, as more and more sites of this civilization are found on the route from where Saraswati River was flowed (Satellite imagery have proved this)

Please see these Video to believe your self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlO9kBpB1uU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQ4hIG9w7c

Yes, I already know that and, the sunken city of Dwarka (earlier rejected as a myth) has also been discovered....yet to be confirmed that its Krishna's !


anyway, found this...
http://www.gaudiya-repercussions.com/index.php?showtopic=2138

I am finding this interesting link, on Vimanas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUmL9o5Bzc0&feature=related

ya but that is going to be too much for some ppl to handle...

Totally agree with Augustinev. We should not take pride on non-existing/un proven things. Its a truth, and lets accept it that affter inventing Zero and Pi our country was sleeping over 2 millinia, except occasional genius like Bose etc. Take out 'Rapidex GK' book see the list of modern inventors (right from pressure cooker till IC), you would hardly see any contribution from our country. The problem is that after univ like Nalanda in BC, the AD Raja's and Nawabs were busy collecting Nobel items for their Museum, instead of getting Printing Press back in 14th Century to aid mass education.

Quote
The internet is full of crack-pot stories from connotation of 'Actual meaning of Vande Mataram' and all that. We should be careful to take them as gospel truth and follow blindly.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr.Carl Sagan

I dnt think talpade failed in his experiment, infact his results were better than Write bros. were their craft flew just 120' or so...Tapade's flew for 1500' before crashing  near chowpatty beach witnessed by justice Ranade and H H Maharaja Sayajirao Gaekwad III.(pl go thru links posted earlier)
Britts made sure Talpade's ''Vimana" never took off again and no physical evidence of the craft remained here as it is belived tht some Rally bros. took it away abroad.
But more than that, isnt it strange that the 'vedic' technology engine used by Mr.Talpade in his creation, has inspired todays NASA to develop similar one for their future missions?

think ancients were no brainless adiwasis afterall..as many brains, hardwired to modern tech thought otherwise..and wonder how many of them, even have the courage to dispute/ask questions regarding similar  achievements elsewhere. dnt think so...

By starting this thread, tried to show my respect towards OUR forgotten hero...unfortunately, nobody here had the courage to do so.
no probs..

Mr Gosavi

Please don't take a wrong message from here, please, my Phd topic was based on The bogus Aryan invasion theory and the glory of Saraswati Civilization, worked closely with some of the imminent archeologists and linguists, Dr Rajaram gave a prepublished copy of his book. Dr Kalyaram send his entire life time research on Saraswathi Civilization for my research, i am fully with you on the subject. my only point was, (a) Do we need to be recogonised or is the time coming for the others to feel they need to be recogonised by us, esp US, because US is not a civilization at all, Singhgad is older than US (b) When we had written Megadoota and singing poems British isles was in ice, except seals nothing lived there. Do we need to be recogonised by them ?

My point is, even if the other person is differentiating between them and us, do we need to, in this Global Village ? take vedic maths for example, is it not getting introduced slowly but steadily in schools ? why ? because it makes life easy, thats why. There is no denying, talpade did what he did and there was a conspiracy behind it, at that time and i want to believe he was stunted from growing, he was not alone, it happened to a lot of people during Raj. as a bad dream we need to forget that, and move on towards this global village. Your Call Sir.

Edit
Punctuations

WOW that's a great conversation, Like minded people on different frequencies.

We don't need any recognition, but should take pride in our achievements, and utilize our past for our future well being.


If country can be free from these Kahdi clads (and they are even stopping to wear khadi, I hear)

Quote from: Vector on March 26, 2011, 02:08:41 AM
Totally agree with Augustinev. We should not take pride on non-existing/un proven things. Its a truth, and lets accept it that affter inventing Zero and Pi our country was sleeping over 2 millinia, except occasional genius like Bose etc.

I dnt think talpade failed in his experiment, infact his results were better than Write bros. were their craft flew just 120' or so...Tapade's flew for 1500' before crashing  near chowpatty beach witnessed by justice Ranade and H H Maharaja Sayajirao Gaekwad III.(pl go thru links posted earlier)
Britts made sure Talpade's ''Vimana" never took off again and no physical evidence of the craft remained here as it is belived tht some Rally bros. took it away abroad.

Is it J C Bose you are referring to?

Just my 2 bits worth. If Talpade actually did fly for whatever distance, don't you think the Brits would have resurrected the design, in due course,  and claimed it as their own? Just trying to look at things a bit rationally.

Agustine, plz dnt get me wrong either. My point was no one tried to create stories out of thin air & forcing 'em down somebodys throat as few thought so..I really appreciate ppl who are aware of the fact that we indeed belong to such a great civilization which offered so much to the world and atleast now, the world is slowly comming to terms with it. On your points (a) & (b) we do not need any recognition abt who we are & what we've done from rest..i feel however, Talpade's work did at the time require it but we know wht happened after that as it was bound to... what hurts, is what happened post 47' ? we conviniently forgot our own past and blindly accepted western philosophy !  for what, i ask...


sushil_anand, what makes u think the Brits would R&D succesfully Mr.Talpades design..?
It may not've been just airframe, but the kind of ancient "vedic" tech powerplant (known as mercury vortex engine) reqd to propel/fly.. would've been the most difficult part. To understand the science behind it, i'm sure one would need the help of a vedic scholar with extreme knowledge in that field. And i seriously doubt how many Brits understood the Vedas back then.
dig it?

Most of the people think Brits would copy Mr. what ever's airplane design & put their name on it... I have heard this way back, only few looser will think like that way in this country who can't do any thing but every time put the blame on others like our politicians do.

How do you define a airplane? A flying object any vehicle capable of flight, generally heavier than air and driven by external force or propulsion" Yes there were gliders before Wright brothers but they are just floating machine & not a flying machine.

And yes we all travel in a world class airplane cover a long distance in a short time... all because of the hard work of great pioneers like Wright brothers & many other people who gave there best for they had the passion to fly  .

Quote from: Vector on March 26, 2011, 03:00:04 PM

sushil_anand, what makes u think the Brits would R&D succesfully Mr.Talpades design..?
It may not've been just airframe, but the kind of ancient "vedic" tech powerplant (known as mercury vortex engine) reqd to propel/fly.. would've been the most difficult part. To understand the science behind it, i'm sure one would need the help of a vedic scholar with extreme knowledge in that field. And i seriously doubt how many Brits understood the Vedas back then.
dig it?

R&D would be  designing from scratch, development or improvement on an existing design. The "working prototype" was there. Understanding the technology would be secondary. How many of us who fly, use engines, electric motors etc., know - or need to know - the science behind it?

Beyond that, I see a kind of religious element in the argument. By which I mean a reliance on blind faith over all else. And there can be no rebuttal on that ground.

Please do note that I am in NO way trying to belittle great things that are proven and correctly attributed to Indians.

About Bose, again, was it J C?

plz google 'talpade' and u'll find ur ans..its easy u see..and do not post merely for the sake of an arguement.

'R&D'.
Do you think Wright brothers have done all these things, It is clearly mentioned in the books of history that Wilbur wright has studied, work done by all the aviation pioneers, and Wilbur himself had mentioned this fact at many places. Wrights are just lucky that they have done the right thing at right time. And their work started falling on right track.

It would be difficult for me to call Wrights as inventors of Flying machines,but they are first humans to fly in Controlled, powered heavier than air machine.

So I think if that achievement can be hipped so much, why not ours', there is no harm in that.

I read some where that they were just trying to make a big box kite.

Sure they did the right thing at the right time..also like to add here that We were slaves of the brits...wereas America was a free country.