Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM
are you trying to conveying that beginners in aeromodeling are also beginners in web common sense and cannot search or read the whole archive of posts existing for 8 years or is it just the way to keep the post count tickin on a new forum.

Also what is weight of anonymous feedback and good or bad rating vs voice of individuals who have identity and respect in the community.

I don't know what the USP of this forum would be if Indiarc allowed sellers to start spamming new comers to buy from them under the pretext of help

But surely I dont want to start a flaming war here but I know some people who feel the need of having the last word will not let lie

IndiaRC,

Well, I am stark newbie in RC and have posted many items on 'where to buy' or 'how to' requests. Till date I have not been spamed. So that a first hand experience for you. I do not know how many LHS there are in RC (in India atleast) who are in interested in spamming. So my submission is that your view does not gel - at least not with me.

Yes, we are offered suggestion on the forum about the product that maybe available with one seller, but then I have a right to buy or not buy. No one can force that decision.

Pankaj

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM
are you trying to conveying that beginners in aeromodeling are also beginners in web common sense and cannot search or read the whole archive of posts existing for 8 years or is it just the way to keep the post count tickin on a new forum.

Also what is weight of anonymous feedback and good or bad rating vs voice of individuals who have identity and respect in the community.

I don't know what the USP of this forum would be if Indiarc allowed sellers to start spamming new comers to buy from them under the pretext of help

But surely I dont want to start a flaming war here but I know some people who feel the need of having the last word will not let lie

No One could do what your doing  at IRC   and the fact that you seem to be posting regularly shows  what the difference between the forums  

Welcome to a free world Sunil/Indiarc you seem to be enjoying it  we wish you to continue enjoying it .

Communication in any form from any  seller other than Indian.Hobby to a member is  SPAM by definition  
Thank god we don't need to do it here we reply directly to the post on the forum itself .
Yes and as Pankaj Says  the buyer has the right to decide either way  we only present options to the buyer  openly no need of PM's and use of oblique references etc .

How true we should be thanking you for creating the USP for RCI but for you this USP would not have come about  and received such a huge response    so in a way RCI is a creation of IRC ( may not be to your liking but this is a fact )  

Looking forward to some meaning full contribution from you with your 8 years of experience I am sure we would surely benefit   so  move beyond this thread  and contribute it would be great  don't worry no one is going to edit your posts , delete/suppress  information  etc  you need not be scared of getting banned  you can   as freely as you want  

Sai

PS : There might only be  a few here discussing your post  but that will not surprise me as Many might be sacred of being BANNED/RESTRICTED  on IRC  hence  would prefer to keep their comments to themselves

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM
I don't know what the USP of this forum would be if Indiarc allowed sellers to start spamming new comers to buy from them under the pretext of help

Of my 10 months of membership here, i have not received a single spam post. Why would any seller spam me here, when they can post directly to the forum ? On the other hand, i do have received spam on IRC account.

Next, being an aeromodeller, if a LHS sends a PM/Spam to me, i do not take it in a very bad way. We all know how difficult it is for LHS to survive, and it is in our hobby's benefit that we let them get the business they deserve. Why make life tougher ?

8 yrs back IRC may have been god-send to aeromodellers but times have changed now.

mr rcforall i don't even want to post your pms and emails forwarded to moderator and distributors leading to your ban on indiarc. infact from all the ppl i remember you are the only who has been banned for blatantly plying your trade. i will not even go down a discussion path with you !!!!!!!!!!!!

  So now we have a Indian hobbies vs Rcforall fight......

Indiarc ,
You need not say it I will say it I wrote to a supplier of yours for direct supplies they replied saying  we had to approach you for which I replied that I was not interested . I sent PM's  to manufacturers and distributors  from abroad who  highlighted their products on IRC  like Castel Creations etc  so what as a hobby shop I can  do it nothing wrong in it

BTW that might have been a clash of interest with Indian Hobbies and not with IRC forum so is IRC really independent then or is it a forum that is meant to serve  Indian Hobbies interests  

I sent PM's to newbies listing the products I have , I don't do that here as I can respond directly to them on the forum , so is responding to a newbies query a crime as a seller ?  I am not ashamed to be a seller far from it .

The response from Pankaj and Gaurav shows the many recipients don't consider it SPAM  so how come as a moderator you decide that is SPAM because it clashes with your business interest  Then is IRC a forum in the first place  by the very definition of a forum .

I have nothing to hide nor am I ashamed of being a seller  nor is your ban of any consequence.

So I am ready if you want an open debate/discussion.

Sai

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM
Also what is weight of anonymous feedback and good or bad rating vs voice of individuals who have identity and respect in the community.

"Anonymous feedback" ? Most stores have their store name as the username here. Good to know that the 3 (?) people who have officially been granted identity and respect  in the community are all on IRC, and theirs is the last word on everything.

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM
I don't know what the USP of this forum would be if Indiarc allowed sellers to start spamming new comers to buy from them under the pretext of help

Let us define spam.  Spam is when you get "unsolicited" commercial offers.  When someone asks "where can I get item X", that is "soliciting" for commercial information and anyone including hobby stores are responding openly (we have no PM business as alleged, because we don't need to!). Multiple stores may respond, all openly.  Other users may say, don't buy from any of these, just get it from an international seller.  But all this is quite beyond how it has historically been done, and some people will never understand this (or not want to understand).  Times have changed, and no amount of negative spin on the events here is going to take us back to the old system.

The end result ? The RC user benefits from the discussion, and THAT is the only thing that matters.

The irony (and USP) there is that Indian Hobbies is the only one allowed to "help" (ie "spam" ?) users, while everyone is free to do it here !  Does the Indian aeromodeller have to deal with Indian Hobbies just because a forum was started some years back ?

Dear Sunil,

I read through this discussion and I think, the discussion itself is proof of the difference in the 2 forums.
I am against CENSORSHIP of any type.

And if we are discussing quality of discussions, RC universe and RC groups which are global forums have a far higher amount of information. But this forum is specifically for India and it serves its purpose.

I can understand what Sunil feels about sellers not advertising on his forum, Fine, but the rule should uniformly apply to all sellers including INDIA HOBBIES. One seller can't be more equal than others- it just isn't fair. I think this is the crux of the matter. People don't mind the no advertising rule, but expect it to be uniformly followed: After all the forum has a moderator, not a dictator.

That does not in anyway detract from your enormous contribution to discussion of RC topics and to your hobby shop.

Avijit

Hey guys ...

Cool it ....   what purpose will this discussion serve ?

None of us are getting any wiser and none of
the participants will change their stand .

BTW Merry Christmas ...

I guess it is the "vent your frustration with anything and everything on Sunil" thread I am feeling a lot better already

Time to discuss something else ?  Let me get the new AXN Floater out of the car (ordered by my brother, I collected it from the post office on his behalf), and post some pictures. He arrives back from his trip tomorrow, and would do the build himself.

Also looking forward to some flying with member Ashta, when he comes to Doha for a few days starting 27th Dec.

BTW can we see some pictures from the Pune fun fly last weekend ?
Sunil, if you can post them here, would be great.

No need, IRC should be up very soon

I can already see the SMF maintenance screen with the "Tip: A free forum does nor allow sellers to spam visitors"  

Indiarc can you please spell out the policies of your forum, as that would help alot of people.

Quote from: indiarc on December 23, 2009, 01:13:10 PM
As far as promoting dealers is concerned they are no saints and just like Indian Hobbies does they can pay the cost to leverage the indiarc community to support a RC endevour. Dealers who want free publicity and self promotion only may be the ones who are most active here also.   Some disgruntled members  who have either not been able to ply their trade thru Indiarc.com or have taken offence to being asked to upgrade their profiles when they want to sell their items on IndiaRC trade sections or those who use the forums only when they want to sell their items. Well we have no time for them !

As mentioned by you i am for your rule that if dealers want to leverage then they can pay a cost for it. But the same should be the rule for everyone including you. When i say everyone it includes all shops brick and online in INDIA AND ABROAD. How come you do not remove post of someone mentioning tower hobbies, etc., is towerhobbies paying you (indiarc) a cost, surely not then why different rules. 

Most hobby shops/dealers/online shops do not send any pm/messages etc., and if a few have done that does not meaning everyone would do it.

Does that make you any better than our govt. officials who apply different rules for different people.

irc was or is the first site as far as i can remember for indians in india. since 1998, i have been on irc. but it is up to sunil how to run his forum as its his baby. if we are not in agreement with his policies, well we are free to jump sites.

sunil also should realise that times are changing and he should be more open as that will help his site improve on the hits. he can also see that rc india these days are more active. but for me both rc india and india rc will remain as before.

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 02:40:22 PM
infact from all the ppl i remember you are the only who has been banned for blatantly plying your trade.

I  have no objection  to INDIARC ( Sunil )  running IRC the way he wants  now that he has openly  admitted that  the sole reason for my ban on IRC  was me plying my trade  which  clearly  implies that it was the clash of interest with INDIAN HOBBIES which was the problem and not  any thing to do with IRC the Forum .

I  then have one question   was Indian Hobbies not blatantly Plying trade on the very same IRC when those numerous  posts were made of the latest arrivals at Indian Hobbies  with  corresponding links  provided for purchasing .

This is true even in the case of foreign  hobby shops  Tower  etc are allowed  but Hobby King  etc  are blocked  and the only reason seems to be Obvious .

So the members are allowed selective  access  to information  as it suits the business interests of  OWNER ( Moderator )  of IRC

Katty ,

I have paid for advertising on IRC  as well  and  even then the  rule was  the same  so I know from 1st hand experience that  paid advt also  did not get you  and special status as a forum member .
Indian Hobbies could blatantly  advertise its wares with posts threads , links etc  during this period  and me despite being a paid advertiser could not do the same thing .

So it has nothing to do with  paid and unpaid sellers .

SO IT IS OBVIOUS THAT  IRC'S  PURPOSE
1) IS TO SERVE THE BUSINESS INTERESTS OF INDIAN HOBBIES  AND ANY  CLASH OF INTEREST WITH THIS PURPOSE IS NOT  ACCEPTABLE .
2) ALL MEMBERS IN IRC ARE NOT EQUAL  SOME HAVE SPECIAL STATUS AS COMPARED TO OTHERS .

THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR MAKING THIS OPEN PUBLIC ADMISSION INDIARC

SO IS IRC  A  FORUM IN THE FIRST PLACE  

Indiarc : When you step out into the free  world also remember one thing  you don't have the elevated protection status you enjoy at IRC you cannot edit , delete , tamper with others posts here , so be prepared  for a free and frank  one to one  . We are used to it  here  so no problem for us  



Sai

Quote from: harikeshpk on December 25, 2009, 05:06:01 AM
irc was or is the first site as far as i can remember for indians in india. since 1998, i have been on irc. but it is up to sunil how to run his forum as its his baby. if we are not in agreement with his policies, well we are free to jump sites.

sunil also should realise that times are changing and he should be more open as that will help his site improve on the hits. he can also see that rc india these days are more active. but for me both rc india and india rc will remain as before.

The problem Harikesh bhai is that if and when people jump ship, people like the Captain (flyingboxcar) admonish them for doing so   Just because everyone else did not work on creating an alternative forum earlier, they are being criticized as "disloyal" and "enjoying others pains" while these people have expressed their opinion on the subject long before the server issue happened. 

Yes, Sunil can run his forum anyway he wants, but why glorify it just because it has been the only one around ?  Why sugarcoat it based on how he runs his hobby store ? Is that the best support that can be offered, instead of saying it as it is ?

Why baseless allegations of seller spam, when the USP there is "help" (or is it spam) from one store only, while everyone has equal opportunity to "help" here ?

You should see how 2.4Ghz was presented on IRC, as if it is to be avoided like the plague because couple of people "who have respect of the community" never got around to using it.  Yet, when it appears in a particular store, the same thing is being recommended ("help"ed!), conveniently forgetting that users of this technology were severely mocked on only a few days earlier (calling them "beta testers", or "they are under the impression that cool technology is supposed to make them better fliers"). And the scary part is the everyone generally kept quiet, I guess out of "respect for the well respected members" ?

Anyways, I hope at least the comments of regular users (not the hobby store ones) in this thread are noticed. 

And this is becoming almost boring 

Quote from: indiarc on December 24, 2009, 12:02:02 PM

Also what is weight of anonymous feedback and good or bad rating vs voice of individuals who have identity and respect in the community.

Indiarc/Sunil ,
I doubt if you will understand  the meaning of Independent feed back but even then  since you  talk about feed back I thought  you need to be educated on the meaning of the same :
http://feedback.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=rcforallin&&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

This is what independent feed back means on a totally independent platform .

As for your interpretation of feed back a member  indicated his satisfaction in dealing with us on IRC  and  conveyed my contact number  to a newbie on IRC and his post was edited by you to  ensure the purpose of his feedback to  another member  was  negated .Is this helping  a newbie   .  THIS POST WAS NOT FROM A SELLER IT WAS FROM MEMBER .

BTW  for the benefit  of all  the post was replaced with a statement saying " This seller is not recommended by India RC " but the irony was  this  edited post did not specify who was the seller not  recommended  and why .
Sai

Sai - Me, you and some others here need Prozac   Wonder if a nice chunk of Christmas cake would work instead   

Seasons greetings !  Onward to an even more "open" (spam filled!) 2010 

Anwar ,

I am Loving It  this is like a  year end party (bash)    won't let such an opportunity  go by  

Sai

Time to close this thread. INDIA RC is back online and things are getting pretty petty here.
Avijit

well i think this should remain here so that people can complain about irc freely in this thread[it may be renamed]

so more feedbacks[not support but complains] sunil bhaiya

Don't think we need this thread for that  

It has been going on since day 2 of this forum's existence :

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-india-forum/feeling-free/

hmm..never looked at that thread
one reason may be it didn't go as hot and popular as this one
seems interesting to know how sunil bhai would have spend 1 hours and 24 minutes on this only dealing with complains