Guys, a petition on change.org has successfully been created...pls pls pls sign it and save the future of our hobby...
thanks to topalle from Gujarat for posting link of drafted petition on behalf of RCindia
link--------
https://www.change.org/p/directorate-general-of-civil-aviation-form-rules-for-uav-flying-as-a-recreational-hobby?recruiter=158164565&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
pls sign up
Thanks. I'd sign up later today
done! And urging people to do this, will not take much time! please! :hatsoff:
Done
done
I have signed too. Good initiative. Let us all support it. Some people may believe in wait and watch. Other people may think that even if we write, government will do nothing. Arguing with them will just be a waste of time. Let them wait and watch or do nothing. For the rest of us who want to try, let us give full effort. If we give up, the law that will be drafted will be detrimental to the hobbyists. So we need to act. This is the first step. Next, we can send letters to the PM and the Minister of Civil Aviation individually. Also in another link the Admin of the site, Anwar sir has been requested to take up the issue on behalf of this group. Let us see what he decides.
thanks everyone...also guys a pre-typed message for forwarding to different social --
[[message start]]https://www.change.org/p/directorate-general-of-civil-aviation-form-rules-for-uav-flying-as-a-recreational-hobby?recruiter=158164565&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&rp_sharecordion_checklist=control
(click on link above, pls fill in ur email, it is not any new way of spam)
guys please sign this petition on change.org... it's for the safety of Indians from harmful use of drones in the wrong hands as well as to preserve the hobby of Remote Controlled flying....also pls pls pls forward it to as many people as possible, so we can get lakhs of signatures for our petition to the Govt.
forwarding doesn't take much time, your forward can lead to a big change..
(this is not spam or fake as some of you might think...)👍🏼👍🏼----[[message end]]
done :thumbsup:
Signed :salute:
Come on all lets do this
I have forwarded to the link our local group. Kindly spread it out
Signed
Signed it. Good work. Keep it up.
72 to go common guys don't refrain from the good
@sidnov,
The petition shows RC INDIA.
So don't know whether you started it or Anwar sir did.
Either way, a good start.
As the 3rd signatory, was curious about the first two ;D
28 in one day is not bad. We'll see if we cross 100 in 2-3 days.
Else Anwar sir may have to put up some kind of notification to members.
May not carry any weight unless we can reach at least 1000...
Wonder if you know the source of the suggested rules...
http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/petition-to-dgca/msg232560/#msg232560
Regards
it was topalle from Gujarat... he was the first to post the link to the petition....
The 2nd person to sign it was me, proud.
Signed. Sent to 9 people by email. Unfortunately FB link is not working. Should be posted on AMAI & Aeromodel Building& Flying groups at least
our petition touched 29...good enough for first day....pls spread the word.....pre typed message to forward above in this thread...
@kkiyer yup saw the in-detail rules you suggested...nice work
This topic should be sticky so more people can reach here.
yup....but who can ??make it sticky?
Admin or Moderator.
Anyway...posted in several Facebook groups. Hope for more response.
anwar sir??pls..:D
signed :thumbsup:
36signatures....keep going...:D
Signed it {:)} ;D
Come on Guys.
Flyingboxcar's Engines, Engines thread has over 51,000 views in 5 years.
Or over 10,000 per year.
Can we not cross 100 in 1-2 days?
Or 1000 in 1-2 weeks?
Done , people sign it up .
signed {:)}
Signed ;)
Done..
Done. Very good initiative. Hoping for a positive outcome. :thumbsup:
Change the number required to 1000...It will take afew days but it will be effective
53 signatures within 24 hrs of starting the petition. .pls spread the word guys..great work
Signed.
Please correct spelling of strict in the first sentence.
Also if possible we have to improve the write up.
m.timesofindia.com/india/With-terror-threat-in-the-air-policy-to-regulate-drones-UAVs-on-the-anvil/articleshow/48181636.cms
Some good news seems to be around ....
Quote from: vibranthobbies on July 24, 2015, 08:35:16 AM
Signed.
Please correct spelling of strict in the first sentence.
Also if possible we have to improve the write up.
I agree.
Everyone here will join. But in order to make it more appealing and convincing to the rest of the world we need to modify the text.
I hope the 59 people who have signed so far will come together here and discuss the structure of the petition and the proper points to include.
P.S. : Is it editable now? If not, we can create a new one and easily get those 59 members to sign again.
I agree with Swapnil.
Sandy sir,
As you, Gusty sir and Shobhit sir are from the armed forces, you can tell us about the security related concerns. Meanwhile, Anwar sir and other veterans can check out the RC related regulations in other countries and see which of those we can borrow.
Once that is done, we can work out a proper petition in terms of syntax and format.
The text seriously need to be edited for more professional impact. I feel a draft petition should have been created/discussed before jumping the gun. BTW, I too have signed it. If it can't be edited, take it down immediately and restart a new one with proper homework.
With Veterans and Seniors like Iyer Sir & Sanjay Sir and experienced FPVers already in the forum, I am sure Sufficient water has already passed over this topic in various discussions as to what exactly is required in terms of Guidelines and Rules for Keeping this hobby safe as well as practical for all of us to follow legitimately in terms of as a hobby and as well as professionally.
I am sure if complied will give out what is expected.
Good to see so much of a positive response. If anybody would like any changes in the text, I will surely incorporate them in my petition.
I was the original poster of the topic "The DGCA strikes back". That was many months ago. Since then there has been lot of talk, Sabre-Rattling, but no action. This is Action, and should be supported
Make lots and lots of petitions. I don't know if the Authorities will give any cognizance to these, but....what the hell! Keep trying. There are many other bodies, not linked to RCI who are also doing their bit. There are not enough hobbyists in the country to create a significant vote-bank, nor are many livelihoods being affected, nor are there any big bucks behind the hobbyists. So, try everything, including prayer ;)
We need 20 more to reach 100 members. I am extending to 500 members. Lets see how fast we can gether support from fellow hobbyists. Keep supporting. :thumbsup:
Please suggest a good picture for our petition.
Also if possible someone put up an RTI enquiry. That may create a bit more pressure on them.
signed
what about this pic??
as for rti @topalle, lets try and wait for some more action, then opt on for the rti....?
Probably a Transmitter? The problem arised due to quadcopters and their misuse to gain publicity. Don't you think that will have a negative impact?
Please do NOT put a pic of a Quad. Why invite controversy?
How about we also start posting videos of 'drones' being put to good use? Like for medical and security purposes. We can also spread awareness about how we get to learn so much and innovate if we follow the safety procedures properly.
yup
inviting more great ideas...
We should ask them to involve us in the decision making process like a vote on whether or not to hace licences. Or at least share with us the new laws before finalizing anything.
Even registration is not necessary if we fly in large open areas away from people. It was like that for a long time before multirotors came in.
nice idea.... can you suggest @swapnil how to make a contact with the dgca, so that we could stay updated about the new developments??
like emails and stuff or any other method??
Post a picture of students learning how to build model airplanes. That's the best according to me for the long term health of this hobby.
yup... will see
@vishalrao I found one.....if okay, topalle can set it.....
How about this...
http://centrepointschools.com/wp-content/gallery/kpg/aeromodelling-room-dsc_0802.jpg
Check out copyright issues before including
I guess i'm the 4th person to sign it. Not sure. Anyways, the text MUST be edited to professional level, which i'm sure the petition starter can do. The draft for the same can be compiled by someone here experienced at that, but it needs to be done fast. The link for this petition has been shared a lot already, so making a new one won't be a good idea considering it's touching 100 now.
Pattern can be like this, preferably in sections:
- A brief idea of this petition
- The concept of RC flying
- How & why is it restricted
- How to resolve
- Links related to all similar discussions on rcindia
- Some helpful videos & such as suggested above
About the logo for the petition, stick to a pic of radio. Our one main aim is to break it out of unfair restrictions.
I'm drafting one now but with very limited know how of rc laws. I hope more of you are at it already. There are some petitions that actually worked to put pressure on authorities, so this might actually work, we never know.
Notify me of a draft petition and I will incorporate these points in the draft or replace the original one entirely
Done!!
8 more!!! come on!!!
well not let this wonderful hobby be banned in this democratic country
6 needed!!
104 till i signed.
Done! I was no. 107....still need 93
signed
Good pic sidnov sir
Please guys support this campaign and sign the petition if you haven't yet
@i am not any sir guys...pls...I am 16:P:D
Interest died down? keep the signatures coming guys. Keep supporting.
Most of the frequently active members have already signed it
We need the inactive members to come online and sign the petition
Till then we will need to keep bumping this topic
Pls vote https://www.change.org/p/directorate-general-of-civil-aviation-form-rules-for-uav-flying-as-a-recreational-hobby?recruiter=158164565&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
bump..
127 signatures till now
Bump
The petition should address DGCA and explain a few things/ misconceptions before it will be listened to, have made a small draft with limited vocabulary i have, i request all member to pitch in (pun intended) and add/ subtract to this draft and let us try to amend the current petition so it is stronger and speaks for us!
Dear Sirs/Madams at DGCA,
This is a plea from all RC (Radio Controlled) Hobbyist flying planes, helicopters and multirotors (aka drones) please hear us out, instead of banning drones we plead you to set norms and rules which the hobbyist have to follow.
To set aside your fears let us explain that we do this for fun, it's a expensive hobby but yet we pursue it because it teaches us a lot about electronics, aerodynamics and promotes/ generates interest in science amongst the youngsters who watch us fly. Of course we don't deny that these can be misused, but so can every other article of daily use, vehicles are used for criminal activities but you don't ban driving, even if accidents kill people on road almost everyday. Banning RC Hobby will be a great loss, for future generation and we who spend out time and passion (not to mention great deal of money) to do something constructive.
Every country has it's share of hobbyist in this field, i request this be studied because blindly banning it will not only deprive new generation of learning something good but also we will be left behind in learning/ creating technology, a subject we Indians pride ourselves in. This is the most popular electronics project in every engineering college and this speaks for itself.
A misconception we would like to clear is that the quads (drones) have become notorious because they are easy to learn and require little space to take of and fly unlike RC planes and cars used in this hobby, but all over the world they are used for many constructive purposes, agriculture, aerial survey (MEMBERS please add to this, with links if possible).
Following are some of the rules we hobbyist agree should be enforced (Seniors of the forum, we will need your help here the most)
Rule 1)
Rule 2)
Rule 3)
....
Very well written sir
I think some experienced member should type or write all of this down and send it as a letter to the DGCA person responsible
I think putting it on change.org will not help a lot as there are not enough frequent rc flyers and moreover other people won't support us as they are scared
So direct petition according to me will be the best thing
Experts please correct me if you think I am wrong
Another option is to open a public grievance on http://pgportal.gov.in/GrievanceNew.aspx . As many people can do it, preferably with custom drafts.
Choose "Ministry of Civil Aviation" & post the draft there. It usually attract some kind of reply.
The same may be addressed to Internal Security, Defense & Home ministry.
Keep the change.org petition intact too. If we get the numbers, it stand a chance.
Good idea Sandyx.
Quote from: sandyx on July 26, 2015, 11:43:38 AM
Another option is to open a public grievance on http://pgportal.gov.in/GrievanceNew.aspx . As many people can do it, preferably with custom drafts.
Choose "Ministry of Civil Aviation" & post the draft there. It usually attract some kind of reply.
The same may be addressed to Internal Security, Defense & Home ministry.
Keep the change.org petition intact too. If we get the numbers, it stands a chance.
I guess in the PG Portal there an option to write directly to PM or PMO? As the thing goes, letters written to PM or PMO gets forwarded to corresponding Ministries with the added advantage that whatever may be the action the Ministry takes, that is monitored by the PMO. Also since the Ministry knows that the PMO is monitoring the issue, they consider it with due seriousness.
In Indian system, nobody wants to take a decision. Everybody wants the higher official to take the decision. And in this kind of system, I have personal experience that the top-down approach works more efefctively. We are all thinking of writing to DGCA because they have published the notification banning drones. But now it not only the DGCA that will be taking decision. As news reports suggest. a law is being drafted. That will be done at a much higher levelI think members can write their views on the PG Portal. Main letter should be addressed to the PM and copies, if required can be given downwards. The only issue is that we do not know which of the agencies are involved here and to what extent. Letter written to the PM will automatically be forwarded to the relevant Ministries without us worrying about it.
I will post my draft here. Other members should also post theirs. It is not necessary that everybody should write the same thing. But if we see others' drafts, we can take some of the points and incorporate in our own.
It seems that no "official view" from RC India is going to be presented to the Government. In that case let individual members take it up in large numbers. I'd give a pause to my quad building and try to draft my own letter today.
Re Draft letter: The moment you mention ''expensive'' & ''spend lots of money'' it will be considered elitist, and without populism or a need for the masses
Therefore the concentration should be on:
1. Educational Value
2. Training of future Aviation, Robotics, Embedded Systems and Artificial Intelligence specialists for the next wave of "Made In India''
3. 2 above will in time prove to be a major import substitute with limitless export earnings
Quote from: santanucus on July 26, 2015, 01:58:09 PM
I guess in the PG Portal there an option to write directly to PM or PMO?
This seems to be that link http://pgportal.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx
Quote from: sanjayrai55 on July 26, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
2. Training of future Aviation, Robotics, Embedded Systems and Artificial Intelligence specialists for the next wave of "Made In India''
Better steer clear of that usage. Might contribute to the hell they're preparing for us already.
I didn't understand what you are trying to say Sandyx. If it is a joke, I didn't find it amusing
No no not at all a joke.
See the last line of the petition.
"-no autonomous UAVs controlled by Artificial Intelligence. Only Remotely controlled aircrafts that are controlled by a human are allowed for safety purposes."
It's better to keep AI away from the whole equation. To us that tech is positive, but opposite to the rest.
Sometimes AI controlled UAVs are better. Without AI what to do if a drone gets out of control? At least with GPS and RTL, there is a chance that it would not go away and fall on someone's head. AI is not the monster that its made out to be. Total manual control is often a risky proposition considering the fact that many amateur fliers are now flying commercially available drones. I don't know why the issue of manual control is so emphasized upon. FAA in USA has not put any such restriction. All they say is that it should not go out of sight.
If GPS, RTH etc which are quite common in even toy aerial devices are included under AI, then i stand corrected. The same should reflect in the petition too. The evil kind of AI the media projects is still a fair distance away from us commoners, so that shouldn't be a threat either. The only requirement is these things shouldn't 'develop' a mind of its own, & there should be a manual override for the full spectrum of its operation. I guess that's what's meant by that line in petition.
Quote from: sandyx on July 26, 2015, 02:41:25 PM
It's better to keep AI away from the whole equation. To us that tech is positive, but opposite to the rest.
True, true
I have drafted a letter addressed to the PM which I plan to send through http://pgportal.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx . There is a 4000 character limit there....this one is more than 8000 ! Either I have to reduce it or better...write small forwarding letter and attach the full letter as PDF attachment. Later to the Ministry using http://pgportal.gov.in/ . There are other ways to send the letter to PM e.g. by post or email. In PG Portal, it is possible to see the actions being taken in this matter. I'd send this letter by post also.
The letter is relatively big (3 page in Word)...maybe no one will read this. But they will at least see the subject and forward it to the concerned department.
If anybody wants to send a letter but has no time to draft one, they can use this one, after suitable amendment. Also, if there is any suggestion on this, please post it.
We should send as many letters as possible. The more the number of letters, the more likely it is that they'd take notice of the issue.
Quote
To
Shri Narendra Modi
Honourable Prime Minister of India
152, South Block, Raisina Hill
New Delhi-110011
Respected Sir,
Sub: (i) Request to exclude recreational users and hobbyists building and flying UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) / UAS / Quadcopters / Drones etc. from the DGCA ban and (ii) Request to take into consideration the interests of flyers in any future law or regulations being formulated in this respect
As you are aware, India has a thriving community of hobbyists who build and fly various types of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles which include planes, helicopters, gliders and Quadcopters or Quadrotors (commercially known as Drones). More recently the availability of such readymade UAVs of various sizes in the market has also given rise to a community of recreational flyers who fly such UAV/ drones for recreation or for photography. Drones are now also being used all around the world for various commercial and non-commercial civilian applications including aerial photography, agriculture, transport of goods and so on. A new kind of sports using drones called FPV Racing is also becoming popular very fast.
2. The commercial availability and proliferation of UAVs in the market has given rise to the issues of national security, of inexperienced users endangering the lives of people or aircrafts and intrusion of privacy of people. Like any technology, UAVs are also dual-use. These may be used for constructive or destructive purposes, either intentionally or unintentionally.
3. While there is a requirement to control the use of UAVs in some manner, unfortunately, the blanket ban of DGCA on flying all kinds of UAVs vide Public Notice issued from File No. 05-13/2014-AED dated 7th October 2014 has at one stroke criminalized the hobbyists and amateurs. It has also forced the budding engineers and innovators who design, build and assemble such UAVs as their engineering projects to stop constructing and flying the same. This is no doubt harmful for the future generation in a country which already lacks innovators.
This will also effectively destroy the budding domain of FPV drone racing in India which is poised to become a new discipline in sports in the next decade. This month itself the first ever National Drone Championships were held in the USA where participants from all over the world, including people of Indian origin residing in the USA took part.
4. In the USA, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has only restricted commercial use of UAV / Drones. But they have not put any control on amateurs or individuals flying these UAVs as a hobby or for recreation purposes. Nor have they made any requirement of flying licence mandatory. Instead they have issued some guidelines for recreational users flying drones, which are given at the URL http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/ . It is to be noted that USA, unlike India, inspite of its post 9/11 security concerns and huge volume of air traffic has not banned its citizens from recreational use of UAVs.
5. Apart from recreational flying, one of the key uses of a UAV is in the domain of aerial photography. In fact a large number of tourists carry a UAV along with them these days to the countries where they visit so that they can get a different perspective of their tourist destination. Many tourists are known to produce wonderful aerial photos and videos and publish them online. Such amateur photos and videos act as an important mode of free publicity for tourism of the destination country. Unfortunately, with a blanket ban on drones in India, tourists arriving in India will never have the chance to shoot an amazing aerial video of Goa or Kerala which would have resulted in free worldwide publicity for our Incredible India.
There is a concern that aerial photography will put our national security at risk. While there is an element of truth here, usually the extent of such a risk is an over-estimation. In any case with high resolution aerial photographs of almost all of the country available through Google Maps and even higher resolution photographs available to Military Satellites of various countries, aerial photographs shot from drones having very limited range and battery life can hardly add to such a security risk.
6. Drones have a huge potential in agriculture and in other civilian sectors as well. Only recently a TV news story was shown on how an Indian farmer made and used a drone to sprinkle pesticide and check for diseases in his farm. The potential applications are unlimited.
7. If this hobby, sports as well as commercial production is encouraged at this nascent stage, in future Indian companies and startups can take a leading role in this area with effects percolating to the areas of Aviation, Electronics, Robotics, Embedded Systems and so on, leading to a success of the "Make in India" concept that you have so successfully campaigned for.
8. Sir, inspite of the above, there is a need to regulate the use of the UAVs keeping in view the security concerns of the nation as well as to maintain the safety, security and privacy of the people. However, while doing that, the necessary laws or rules should not be such restrictive that it stifles innovation and puts India and Indians at a disadvantageous position vis-à-vis other countries of the world. Regulations are definitely needed but not paranoia. We have seen that in the past such restrictions have proved detrimental to the progress of the nation. Accordingly, here are a few suggestions which may kindly be kept in consideration while framing any new Rule / Law /Guidelines by DGCA or any other agencies
Proposals for Guidelines for Recreational users of UAVs
- Recreational use of UAVs by hobbyists and amateurs may be allowed subject to certain guidelines and conditions
- Commercial use of UAVs may be restricted and subjected to permission from the proper authorities
- Flying upto 400 feet in the air may be allowed
- Flying over crowded area should not be allowed
- Flying over sensitive infrastructure like power plants, water treatment plants, military areas, airports, jails, restricted zones etc. should not be allowed
- Flying within 5 km of Airport should not be allowed
- The total payload carrying capacity of UAVs may be restricted upto a certain limit
- UAVs should be flown within eyesight
- UAV exclusion zones may be created and made known to flyers. Flying and aerial photography may be prohibited in such exclusion zones.
9. There has been arguments by certain quarters that licence may be issued for flying UAVs similar to that issued for vehicles or for persons who are flying. However, such a proposal in respect of recreational flyers will be counter-productive in such a big country like ours. Apart from taxing the government machinery, it will give rise to the infamous "Licence Raj" and "Inspector Raj" prevalent till 1980s, breeding corruption, red tape and harassment. In the USA, the FAA has not proposed any licensing in respect of the recreational users. However, if at all some control needs to be exercised in India in respect of the UAV flying considering security aspects, a proposal is given to use e-Governance for this purpose for "self-registration" of UAVs by persons flying them.
Proposal for Online Self-Registration System for recreational users of UAV using e-Governance
- A web portal may be created for self-registration of UAV fliers and their UAVs
- Flyers can be citizens of India or International tourists and can self-register themselves online. This will be a one-time registration
- Domestic flyers may be identified and linked with Aadhar Card Number or Election Identity Card number
- International flyers may be identified and linked with their passport numbers
- Once the person self-registers himself/herself online, he/she can register one or more UAVs flown by him/her
- Photos, weight and other capabilities of the UAV e.g camera, FPV, telemetry etc. and similar details can be uploaded by the user himself/herself
- After entering details of UAV, a printout of UAV identification number can be generated from the system and pasted on the UAV itself
- Places where they are likely to fly can be entered online by the user himself. For example, if someone wants to fly in Goa, he/she will enter the time and dates and locations online. Flying locations can be indicated out on a Google Map mashup at the site or just mentioned.
- The map can also automatically display restricted areas where flying should not be done. Time based restricted areas can also be shown e.g. around Red Fort area on August 15
- After the user registers the location to fly (which can be a date or a range of dates) he/she can generate a printout, which he should carry with himself at the time of flying. Authorities can also ask for the slip anytime from the flier
With the above system, no manual intervention and permission is required. No specific agency is required to deploy personnel for licensing. However, all UAVs are self-registered and have a registration number. All flyers are also identified. No harassment will be made to persons possessing self-registration printouts. Also authorities can take action against persons without self-registration documents and seize UAVs not having self-registration documents.
10. Sir, being a hobbyist, it is my earnest request to you to personally look into the matter so that the indefinite ban on flying UAVs imposed by DGCA may be lifted at the earliest and a Law, Policy or Guideline may be put into place allowing recreational users and hobbyists to fly UAVs without any problem. A continuing prohibition of a new and rapidly evolving technology with a huge potential is detrimental to our country in the long run and everyday that passes with such a prohibition forces our country backwards as compared to the nations which are reaping its benefits.
Thanking You,
Yours faithfully
XYZ
Shall I add this letter to the petition?
Sure !
hey guys, am back....nice ideas emerging.... if anyone sends a letter to pmo level or so, pls notify...will definitely try to help...
That letter seems to be perfect, should we co-ordinate and request members to send at same day? to attract attention!
yup
one day, altogether...
the letter is amazing santanucus
Thanks :) Well.. writing to the PM....so had to put some efforts ;)
Quote from: rajsachdev on July 26, 2015, 11:26:06 PM
That letter seems to be perfect, should we co-ordinate and request members to send at same day? to attract attention!
Not too many on the same day ...but I think lots of letters sustained over a period of time will keep their attention. From my personal experience I have seen that too many letters on the same subject on the same day tend to create some noise but they will forget the issue if nothing happens over the next few month. If letters keep coming on a sustained basis then the issue won't be forgotten.
For example, suppose some of our members send our petitions over a period of 15 days to PMO. Then we keep quiet for a month (we don't want to irritate them..do we? ;) ). And then few others send more letters to the same organization. That will never allow the issue to die down. In a similar manner we can send letters to other persons and organizations.
And we should follow up on our petition on regular basis...sending reminders etc., approaching young MPs. Maybe Dr. Kalam, our ex-President too...and so on. If somebody has access to media, we can take it up to them as well. We need a different kind of letter for media.
Basically we have to exert sustained pressure and build up a momentum. I know its hard to concentrate on all these things when we could use our time in pursuing the real thing ...our hobby. I am making a quad and its flipping over and I was thinking of troubleshooting it today. But if flying is made impossible what would I do with a drone at home? Its needs sustained effort..but if we love this hobby, maybe that much effort we should put in.
At the same time, we should encourage more and more people to support the change.org petition. We should aim for at least 1000. We have more than 14000 members here. Surely 1000 is not a big target.
How about sending photocopies of this letters in bulk to PM. I think this would attract some attention.
Quote from: SuperCheap on July 27, 2015, 12:40:36 AM
How about sending photocopies of this letters in bulk to PM. I think this would attract some attention.
Yes...sending by post can be done (and should be done) but as I said...space it over a few days. People get irritated when they receive too many letters :) And of course, there should be individual signatures and real addresses below the letter ;) Otherwise they would think that a few people are making this thing up.
By the way, it would be better if letters with different writeups are sent. For example some letters could be based on this draft...some letters on the draft posted by rajsachdev or other members. New ideas or proposals could be added. Please keep posting new proposals so that the same could be incorporated in other letters.
anyone read this??
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Video-showing-home-made-drone-with-gun-thats-able-to-fire-leads-to-fears-quadcopters-could-be-banned/articleshow/48113529.cms
people who always want to jeopardize the hobby
Its from the US where gun is available freely. Someone simply mounted it on the drone. There is no denial of the fact that in the near future military drones will be used in warfare. But banning a drone universally because someone misused the technology is not justified.
By the way, I'd try to send the letter to PM by tomorrow..
okay....
guys a great loss to our country .....rip Dr apj Abdul kalam...
Just yesterday posted about writing to Dr. Kalam on this issue. And today he is no more. So sad.
any developments regarding the letter or petition to the pmo?
I was out of my city and could not post it as its on my desktop computer. I'd make some minor corrections and hope to post it today evening. I'd post the final draft too.
Forwarded from PM--------original message by asutosh,{asupan}-----
We are in a very unique situation where we have been doing Aeromodelling for the last 20 years. It is inside an active Airport which has an ATC. We always take permission from Air Traffic controller before using the Runway. This has been absolutely safe and well coordinated. Hence when you are writing a petition which includes not flying 5 km within an airport with ATC then can you please update it with something ''with permission of ATC'' in the petition.
Asutosh
{message end}
can y'all suggest about this modification in our petition as it might affect asutosh and many others in a situation like this?
Around 2k members in forum but only 50 signed...
I think they didn't find it appropriate
or maybe just laziness ;)
I have finalized the draft. It includes the changes suggested by Asutosh (as mentioned in sidnov's message). I have also included some of the parts from the draft posted by rajsachdev which was not there in the earlier draft.Here is the finalized draft which I am trying to send to PM today through the link http://pgportal.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx and file it under the "Central Government (Miscellaneous)" category. There is a 4000 word limit in the submission form. But PDF files can be attached. So I am thinking of posting a short forwarding letter in the text box and attaching the complete letter as PDF attachment, since the letter exceeds the word limit.
When sending by post, the forwarding letter is not required.
Forwarding LetterQuote
Dated: _____________
To
Shri Narendra Modi
Honourable Prime Minister of India
152, South Block, Raisina Hill
New Delhi-110011
Respected Sir,
Sub: (i) Request to exclude recreational users and hobbyists building and flying UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) / UAS / Quadcopters / Drones etc. from the DGCA ban and (ii) Request to take into consideration the interests of flyers in any future law or regulation being formulated in this respect
Kindly find enclosed / attached a letter on the above-mentioned subject.
Your personal intervention in respect of the details mentioned in the attached letter is urgently solicited.
Thanking You,
Yours faithfully
XYZ
Main LetterDownload PDF from https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6UgXTZBN0sCbG1zYzBVa3ExQ1U/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6UgXTZBN0sCbG1zYzBVa3ExQ1U/view?usp=sharing)
Quote
Dated: ___________
To
Shri Narendra Modi
Honourable Prime Minister of India
152, South Block, Raisina Hill
New Delhi-110011
Respected Sir,
Sub: (i) Request to exclude recreational users and hobbyists building and flying UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) / UAS / Quadcopters / Drones etc. from the DGCA ban and (ii) Request to take into consideration the interests of flyers in any future law or regulation being formulated in this respect
As you are aware, India has a thriving community of hobbyists who build and fly various types of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles which include planes, helicopters, gliders and Quadcopters or Quadrotors (commercially known as Drones). More recently the availability of such readymade UAVs of various sizes in the market has also given rise to a community of recreational flyers who fly such UAV/ drones for recreation or for photography. Drones are now also being used all around the world for various commercial and non-commercial civilian applications including aerial photography, agriculture, transport of goods and so on. A new kind of sports using drones called FPV Racing is also becoming popular very fast. This hobby also involves developing a lot of knowledge about electronics, aerodynamics and promotes/generates interest in science and technology amongst the youngsters.
2. The commercial availability and proliferation of UAVs in the market has given rise to the issues of national security, of inexperienced users endangering the lives of people or aircrafts and intrusion of privacy of people. Like any technology, UAVs are also dual-use. These may be used for constructive or destructive purposes, either intentionally or unintentionally.
3. While there is a requirement to control the use of UAVs in some manner, unfortunately, the blanket ban of DGCA on flying all kinds of UAVs vide Public Notice issued from File No. 05-13/2014-AED dated 7th October 2014 has at one stroke criminalized the hobbyists and amateurs. It has also forced the budding engineers and innovators who design, build and assemble such UAVs as their engineering projects to stop building and flying the same. This is no doubt harmful for the future generation in a country which already lacks innovators.
This will also effectively destroy the budding domain of FPV drone racing in India which is poised to become a new discipline in sports in the next decade. This month itself the first ever National Drone Championships were held in the USA where participants from all over the world, including people of Indian origin residing in the USA took part.
4. In the USA, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has only restricted commercial use of UAV / Drones. But they have not put any control on amateurs or individuals flying these UAVs as a hobby or for recreation purposes. Nor have they made any requirement of flying licence mandatory. Instead they have issued some guidelines for recreational users flying drones, which are given at the URL http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/ . It is to be noted that USA, unlike India, inspite of its post 9/11 security concerns and huge volume of air traffic has not banned its citizens from recreational use of UAVs.
5. Apart from recreational flying, one of the key uses of a UAV is in the domain of aerial photography. In fact a large number of tourists carry a UAV along with them these days to the countries where they visit so that they can get a different perspective of their tourist destination. Many tourists are known to produce wonderful aerial photos and videos and publish them online. Such amateur photos and videos act as an important mode of free publicity for tourism of the destination country. Unfortunately, with a blanket ban on drones in India, tourists arriving in India will never have the chance to shoot an amazing aerial video of Goa or Kerala which would have resulted in free worldwide publicity for our Incredible India.
There is a concern that aerial photography will put our national security at risk. While there is an element of truth here, usually the extent of such a risk is an over-estimation. In any case with high resolution aerial photographs of almost all of the country available through Google Maps and even higher resolution photographs available to Military Satellites of various countries, aerial photographs shot from drones (which have very limited range and battery life) can hardly add to such a security risk.
6. Drones have a huge potential in agriculture and in other civilian sectors as well. Only recently a TV news story was shown on how an Indian farmer made and used a drone to sprinkle pesticide and check for diseases in his farm. A drone has recently been used to transport blood to a hospital quickly in a difficult terrain. The potential applications are unlimited and new uses are being found everyday.
7. If this hobby, sports as well as commercial production is encouraged at this nascent stage, in future the Indian companies and startups can take a leading role in this area with effects percolating to the areas of Aviation, Electronics, Robotics, Embedded Systems and so on, leading to a success of the "Make in India" concept that you have so successfully campaigned for.
8. Sir, inspite of the above, there is a need to regulate the use of the UAVs keeping in view the security concerns of the nation as well as to maintain the safety, security and privacy of the people. However, while doing that, the necessary laws or rules should not be so restrictive that it stifles innovation and puts India and Indians at a disadvantageous position vis-à-vis other countries of the world. Regulations are definitely needed but not paranoia. The potential for its misuse or accident is no more than the potential of accident or misuse of a vehicle or an aircraft. But we don't ban driving of a vehicle or flying of an aircraft. We have seen that in the past such restrictions have proved detrimental to the progress of the nation. Accordingly, here are a few suggestions which may kindly be kept in consideration while framing any new Rule / Law /Guidelines by DGCA or by any other agencies
Proposals for Guidelines for Recreational users of UAVs
- Recreational use of UAVs by hobbyists and amateurs may be allowed subject to certain guidelines and conditions
- Commercial use of UAVs may be restricted and subjected to permission from the proper authorities
- Flying upto 400 feet in the air may be allowed
- Flying over crowded area should not be allowed
- Flying over sensitive infrastructure like power plants, water treatment plants, military areas, airports, jails, restricted zones etc. should not be allowed
- Flying within 5 km of Airport should not be allowed without permission from ATC
- The total payload carrying capacity of UAVs may be restricted upto a certain limit
- UAVs should be flown within eyesight
- UAV exclusion zones may be created and made known to flyers. Flying and aerial photography may be prohibited in such exclusion zones.
9. There have been arguments by certain quarters that licence may be issued for flying UAVs similar to that issued for vehicles or for persons who are flying. However, such a proposal in respect of recreational flyers will be counter-productive in such a big country like ours. Apart from taxing the government machinery, it will give rise to the infamous "Licence Raj" and "Inspector Raj" prevalent till 1980s, breeding corruption, red tape and harassment. In the USA, the FAA has not proposed any licensing in respect of the recreational users. However, if at all some control needs to be exercised in respect of the UAV flying considering security aspects, a proposal is given to use e-Governance for this purpose for "self-registration" of UAVs by persons flying them.
Proposal for Online Self-Registration System for recreational users of UAV using e-Governance
- A web portal may be created for self-registration of UAV fliers and their UAVs
- Flyers can be citizens of India or International tourists and can self-register themselves online. This will be a one-time registration
- Domestic flyers may be identified and linked with Aadhar Card Number or Election Identity Card number
- International flyers may be identified and linked with their passport numbers
- Once the person self-registers himself/herself online, he/she can register one or more UAVs flown by him/her
- Photos, weight and other capabilities of the UAV e.g camera, FPV, telemetry etc. and similar details can be uploaded by the user himself/herself
- After entering details of UAV, a printout of UAV identification number can be generated from the system and pasted on the UAV itself
- Places where they are likely to fly can be entered online by the user himself. For example, if someone wants to fly in Goa, he/she will enter the time and dates and locations online. Flying locations can be indicated on a Google Map mashup at the site or just mentioned.
- The map can also automatically display restricted areas where flying should not be done. Time dependent restricted areas can also be shown e.g. around Red Fort area on August 15
- After the user registers the location to fly (which can be a date or a range of dates) he/she can generate a printout, which he should carry with himself at the time of flying. Authorities can also ask for the slip anytime from the flier
With the above system, no manual intervention and permission is required. No specific agency is required to deploy personnel for licensing. However, all UAVs are self-registered and have a registration number. All flyers are also identified. No harassment will be made to persons possessing self-registration printouts. Also authorities can take action against persons without self-registration documents and seize UAVs not having self-registration documents.
10. Sir, being a hobbyist, it is my earnest request to you to personally look into the matter so that the indefinite ban on flying UAVs imposed by DGCA may be lifted at the earliest and a Law, Policy or Guideline may be put into place allowing recreational users and hobbyists to fly UAVs without any problem.
Every country has its share of hobbyists in this field. Banning it will not only deprive the new generation our country from learning something interesting but India will be left behind in learning/ innovating technology, a subject we Indians pride ourselves in. This is already the most popular electronics project in engineering colleges which speaks for itself.
A continuing prohibition of a new and rapidly evolving technology with a huge potential is detrimental to our country in the long run and every day that passes with such a prohibition forces our country backwards as compared to the nations which are reaping its benefits.
Thanking You,
Yours faithfully
XYZ
We are having a meeting regarding the same on 20th August, 2015.
DGCA has prepared a resolution for further action. We will be working over this with Hon'ble Home Minister.
Quote from: globalmilind on July 31, 2015, 10:49:03 PM
We are having a meeting regarding the same on 20th August, 2015.
DGCA has prepared a resolution for further action. We will be working over this with Hon'ble Home Minister.
Glad to know that. :hatsoff:
I have submitted the grievance successfully to PM. The current status displayed through PG Portal is as below:
The main letter was submitted as a PDF attachment which is not being shown in the status.
Those who intend to send their letter, please do so as early as possible.
(http://s10.postimg.org/sosqcu98p/comp.jpg)
Happy to make you smile pal! :)
Quote from: globalmilind on July 31, 2015, 10:49:03 PM
We are having a meeting regarding the same on 20th August, 2015.
DGCA has prepared a resolution for further action. We will be working over this with Hon'ble Home Minister.
Can you drop some hints on what kind of resolutions? And how much time it will take more in implementation?
Nice effort santanucus, milind sir pls keep us updated about the meeting...
signed.
JK
http://indianexpress.com/article/business/economy/hitch-for-e-tailers-govt-may-restrict-drone-usage-to-line-of-sight-services/
Atleast something is happening, awesome!!!
The status of my "Grievance" on PG Portal has been updated.
Now it says: Date of Action : 03 Aug 2015
Forwarded to Ministry of Civil Aviation
this is a seriously good speed at which govt is acting up.... let's just hope for the best....
BTW our petition is stuck at 155 signatures...... that's definitely not what we expected.... its kinda dud... maybe people just didn't like it..
Don't want to hack the thread, but i was just thinking why after so many years of this beautiful hobby in India, is now all-of-a-sudden treated as "banned"!!! Then realized, not the whole hobby is banned but the portion where some attraction of commercial uses like event photography and pizza delivery is advertised, and it made it as "chocolaty" :Rs: (:|~ commercialization. This could be a cause for the attraction (:|~ for a group of people in authorities and is treated as "banned" to get some (:|~...
(i'm avoiding use of few words, afraid which is treated as blame to authorities)
Awesome initiative santanucus
Quote from: PiyushI on August 03, 2015, 08:22:29 PM
Don't want to hack the thread, but i was just thinking why after so many years of this beautiful hobby in India, is now all-of-a-sudden treated as "banned"!!! Then realized, not the whole hobby is banned but the portion where some attraction of commercial uses like event photography and pizza delivery is advertised....
Actually, as of now the whole hobby is banned as per the last DGCA notification and not merely commercial ventures. Personally as a new hobbyist, I am interested only in the revocation of the ban on recreational flying. Although I have nothing against the commercial use of drones, it is the business of the respective companies to address that issue.
There is some positive news coming in (for hobbyists) if we go by the news in the Indian Express posted above.
So this is a time for jumping in with full momentum as it appears that critical issues are being discussed right now. All members are requested to sign the change.org petition and submit letters through PG Portal in PM's website. We need to have our voices heard without delay. @foamybuilder Thanks ! I hope some more members of this group would make their voices heard to the authorities before the crucial decision is taken.
Quote from: SuperCheap on August 03, 2015, 01:41:12 PM
http://indianexpress.com/article/business/economy/hitch-for-e-tailers-govt-may-restrict-drone-usage-to-line-of-sight-services/
Specifically the following line in the article bothers me
QuoteFAA's proposed rules permit certified operators to fly UAVs weighing up to 55 pounds during day time. Commercial drones will be permitted to fly at a speed of up to 100 miles per hour and at heights of up to 500 feet. Operators will have to renew their permit every two years.
Is this true? I have not seen this proposal from FAA anywhere. This means licensing. While licensing may work in USA, in India it will as usual lead to license raj and corrupt practices.
EDIT: Okay...I found it. Its at https://www.faa.gov/uas/nprm/ and the proposal is meant for conducting non-recreational operations. Hope the govt. does not mix up the two here.
Milind Sir also pointed out regarding the meeting on 20th August. I wonder what will be the final outcome. Cant wait.
As per the link posted by you, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) has been asked to submit their recommendations in the next two to three weeks. I think they are planning to get the feedback before that.
The PMO Office has sent my letter to Ministry of Civil Aviation and from there it is likely to be forwarded to DGCA. In the meantime since MHA has been asked to submit their opinion (probably on the security point of view) and they are likely to do so in a couple of weeks, I think sending a copy of my letter through PG Portal to MHA would probably be worthwhile.
Good work Santanucus. Let's hope to get something positive from govt.
Even I am going to send a letter today.
That's good. I hope more members send letters before the final decisions are made by the government.
any updates ?
The status of my letter has been updated today. It has been forwarded from the Ministry of Civil Aviation to DGCA and status is being shown as "under process".
(http://s10.postimg.org/3s08ztik9/comp.jpg)
nice to hear that. keep it up.
I have submitted a short form of the letter covering the security aspects to the Ministry of Home Affairs. Their view is critical from the national security point of view. Here is the text of the forwarding letter and the attached main letter:Quote
To
Shri Rajnath Singh
Honourable Union Home Minister
North Block, Central Secretariat
New Delhi – 110001
Respected Sir,
Sub: Framing of policy on the flying of UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) / UAS / Quadcopters / Drones etc. by recreational users and hobbyists in the context of the prevailing DGCA restrictions - Request to take into consideration the interests of hobbyists and flyers while at the same time ensuring the safety and security of the nation
Kindly find enclosed / attached a letter (in PDF file) on the above-mentioned subject.
Your personal attention in respect of the details mentioned in the attached letter is urgently solicited.
Thanking You,
Yours faithfully
Santanu Acharya
Quote
To
Shri Rajnath Singh
Honourable Union Home Minister
North Block, Central Secretariat
New Delhi – 110001
Respected Sir,
Sub: Framing of policy on the flying of UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) / UAS / Quadcopters / Drones etc. by recreational users and hobbyists in the context of the prevailing DGCA restrictions - Request to take into consideration the interests of hobbyists and flyers while at the same time ensuring the safety and security of the nation
As you are aware, the commercial availability and proliferation of UAVs and certain incidents involving Multirotors (commercially known as Drones) in this country has given rise to security concerns that such equipments might be be misused by anti-national elements.
2. Much before drones became commercially available and popular, a thriving community of hobbyists in India have been building and flying various types of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles which include planes, helicopters, gliders and drones. More recently the availability of such readymade UAVs of various sizes in the market has also given rise to a community of recreational flyers who fly such UAV/ drones for recreation or for photography. Drones are now also being used all around the world for various commercial and non-commercial civilian applications including aerial and tourism related photography, agriculture, transport of goods and so on. This hobby also involves developing a lot of knowledge about electronics, aerodynamics and promotes/generates interest in science and technology amongst the youngsters. Like any technology, UAVs are also dual-use. These may be used for constructive or destructive purposes, either intentionally or unintentionally.
3. The question naturally arises as to how the security aspects can be taken care of without stifling innovation, recreation and the beneficial uses of such UAVs. Pending formulation of such policy, DGCA has restricted the flying of all kinds of UAVs vide Public Notice issued from File No. 05-13/2014-AED dated 7th October 2014. It is understood from newspaper reports that DGCA has sought opinion from various government and non-government agencies, including the Ministry of Home Affairs before formulating a policy.
4. It is to be noted that USA, one of the few countries to formulate a policy in this respect has not prohibited its citizens from recreational use of UAVs inspite of its post 9/11 security concerns. They have not made any requirement of flying licence mandatory either. Instead they have issued some guidelines for recreational users flying drones, which are given at the URL http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/ .
5. Apart from recreational flying, one of the key uses of a UAV is in the domain of aerial photography. In fact a large number of tourists carry a UAV along with them these days to the countries where they visit, so that they can get a different perspective of their tourist destination. Many tourists are known to produce wonderful aerial photos and videos and publish them online. Such amateur photos and videos act as an important mode of free publicity for tourism in the destination country.
There is a concern that aerial photography will put our national security at risk. While there is an element of truth here, usually the extent of such a risk is an over-estimation. In any case with high resolution aerial photographs of almost all of our country available through Google Maps and even higher resolution photographs available to Military Satellites of various countries, aerial photographs shot from drones (which have very limited flying ability due to battery life constraints) can hardly add to such a security risk. Most commercially available and hobby drones can fly for an average of 15 minutes or less and make enough noise which make them unsuitable for low level surveillance.
6. Sir, inspite of the above, there is a need to regulate the use of the UAVs keeping in view the security concerns of the nation as well as to maintain the safety, security and privacy of the people while at the same time ensuring that laws or rules should not be so restrictive that it stifles innovation and puts India and Indians at a disadvantageous position vis-à-vis other countries of the world. Regulations are definitely needed but not paranoia. The potential for its misuse or accident is no more than the potential of accident or misuse of a vehicle or an aircraft. But we don't ban driving of a vehicle or flying of an aircraft.
Accordingly, here are a few suggestions which may kindly be kept in consideration while framing any new Rule / Law /Guidelines or for providing any opinion in this respect
Proposals for Guidelines for Recreational users of UAVs
- Recreational use of UAVs by hobbyists and amateurs may be allowed subject to certain guidelines and conditions
- Commercial use of UAVs may be restricted and subjected to permission from the proper authorities
- Flying upto 400 feet in the air may be allowed
- Flying over crowded areas should not be allowed
- Flying over sensitive infrastructure like power plants, water treatment plants, military areas, airports, jails, restricted zones etc. should not be allowed
- Flying within 5 km of Airport should not be allowed without permission from ATC
- The total payload carrying capacity of UAVs may be restricted upto a certain limit
- UAVs should be flown within eyesight
- UAV exclusion zones may be created and made known to flyers. Flying and aerial photography may be prohibited in such exclusion zones.
7. There have been arguments by certain quarters that licence may be issued for flying UAVs similar to that issued for vehicles or for persons who are flying. However, such a proposal in respect of recreational flyers will be counter-productive in such a big country like ours. Apart from taxing the government machinery, it may give rise to the infamous "Licence Raj", corruption, red tape and harassment. In the USA, the FAA has not proposed any licensing in respect of the recreational users. However, if at all some control needs to be exercised in respect of flying of UAVs considering security aspects, a proposal is given to use e-Governance for this purpose for "self-registration" of UAVs by persons flying them.
Proposal for Online Self-Registration System for recreational users of UAV using e-Governance
- A web portal may be created for self-registration of UAV fliers and their UAVs
- Flyers can be citizens of India or International tourists and can self-register themselves online. This will be a one-time registration
- Domestic flyers may be identified and linked with Aadhar Card Number or Election Identity Card number
- International flyers may be identified and linked with their passport numbers
- Once the person self-registers himself/herself online, he/she can register one or more UAVs flown by him/her
- Photos, weight and other capabilities of the UAV e.g camera, FPV, telemetry etc. and similar details can be uploaded by the user himself/herself
- After entering details of UAV, a printout of UAV identification number can be generated from the system and pasted on the UAV itself
- Places where they are likely to fly can be entered online by the user himself. For example, if someone wants to fly in Goa, he/she will enter the time and dates and locations online. Flying locations can be indicated on a Google Map mashup at the site or just mentioned.
- The map can also automatically display restricted areas where flying should not be done. Time dependent restricted areas can also be shown e.g. around Red Fort area on August 15
- After the user registers the location to fly (which can be a date or a range of dates) he/she can generate a printout, which he should carry with himself at the time of flying. Authorities can also ask for the slip anytime from the flier
With the above system, no manual intervention and permission is required. No specific agency is required to deploy personnel for licensing. However, all UAVs are self-registered and have a registration number. All flyers are also identified. No harassment will be made to persons possessing self-registration printouts. Also authorities can take action against persons without self-registration documents and seize UAVs not having self-registration documents.
8. Sir, being a hobbyist, it is my earnest request that a balance between the security concerns of the nation, the interests of innovators / hobbyists / students and recreational fliers of UAVs and the potential benefits of the use UAVs in civilian applications may be kept in perspective while forming a rational view and policy on the issue.
Thanking you,
Yours faithfully
XYZ
(http://s18.postimg.org/bpsib5fjd/comp.jpg)
great to hear that
Status Update of the MHA letter
(http://s1.postimg.org/3zqgoqg4f/comp.jpg)
MHA IS Division-1 deals with Internal Security of the country: http://www.mha.nic.in/isd1
Good. seems you have good knowledge to deal with govt. authorities. Any idea in what form it will come out?
My thanks to Santanu, and others who helped, for driving this course of action.
We may actually get a reaction from the Govt.
Which is more than can be said for my attempts, which were a protest email, and a suggestions email to DGCA, just after midnight of 11th-12th Oct 2014, immediately after DGCA's notice became public.
Needless to say, no reply to date!
This time hopefully the Jt Secy will respond.
Quote from: Dharmik on August 13, 2015, 10:47:27 PM
Good. seems you have good knowledge to deal with govt. authorities.
I second that. Thanks Santanu
Any reply as of yet?
asking cause date of action was 12th
Thanks @KK Iyer Sir and @v2 eagle.
Whether we'd actually get an effective reply remains to be seen :) We'd probably get some kind of reply because in respect of letters sent through PG Portal some kind of final "action taken" has to be shown. There is also a provision for sending reminders.
I don't expect them to provide any ground-breaking reply. Most probably the reply would be something like "Your views are being kept in consideration" and they would then close the matter. But since we know that the Government is also taking steps to do something about the issue, views sent by hobbyists will be kept in the agenda as the issue relates to hobbyists and recreational fliers. That's why if some letters are sent at this stage with different kind of views, it may help in influencing the policy.
@Dharmik ... "The date of action" relates to the "Forwarded to" row. That means whoever dealt with the letter in the previous stage has forwarded it to the next stage. It doesn't mean that they have actually taken any action in respect of the contents of the letter itself. In this case it only means that it has been sent from the Ministry's office which deals with such grievance to the proper section dealing with the matter i.e. in this case IS Division-I.
When it reaches the last stage, that is the section of the Ministry which actually deals with the matter, status will show "Under process". That's why in respect of the other letter sent to PM, it went from PMO to Ministry of Civil Aviation to DGCA, which is the final authority to deal with the matter and is being shown as "under process".
This chain of forwarding in government departments is time taking but instead of writing a letter directly to the lower authority, it is usually more effective.
Lets see what comes out of it but if some more letters are sent by members with some concrete views, it will be more helpful at this stage because "hit the nail while it is hot" ;)
I have started getting spam from the site to my work email asking
me to support various causes.
This is not a good sign if my email address is being harvested for other purposes.
nice work santanu
Very low sigh ups. This hobby has more takers
Quote from: hangingtough on August 15, 2015, 08:00:09 AM
Very low sigh ups. This hobby has more takers
this is a good initiative by the members here.... we will push this link on our RCB facebook page and website and also in-store walking soon. Hope this get a few more sign ups
regards
sujju
Thanks sujju ..appreciate that ....
The status of grievance is being shown as "Under process" in IS Division-I on 18.08.2015
:thumbsup: Progress
what about the meeting today? ?dgca
Today I received a reply from DGCA by post against the petition written to PM (and forwarded to DGCA from PMO) . Of course we didn't expect a ground-breaking reply but the intention was to communicate our point of view to the Government before the policy is formulated. The most important thing is that they have informed officially in writing that "DGCA is in the process of finalizing the guidelines (and globally harmonize those) on operation and use of UAV/UAS in the Indian Civil Airspace which may be lenient to recreational users of UAS". They have also noted our "valuable suggestions" ;D
I am attaching a photo of the letter below. Hopefully they will keep our views in perspective while formulating the policy.
(http://s23.postimg.org/9l1kskekr/drone.jpg)
Thank you sir for taking this initiative and trying to safeguard the hobby :bow: :salute:
Hope they remain on our side
Well done.
Better than expected.
Worth making the effort.
I am so happy.
Thank you sir.
The government does listen to people this is in contradiction to my assumption made earluer that it doesn't.
***
Thanks everyone for your support and especially K.K. Iyer sir for the suggestions made in your earlier email to DGCA which I copied here. And government does listen to the voice of the people. But they listen on a slightly different "wavelength"...so we have to use that "wavelength" to get ourselves heard :P
Bravo ! Could not have imagined us getting a reply . The new govt has been doing well in terms of communication. I hope more members can write emails and letters .
:thumbsup: A step forward
Thats amazing progress!! gr8 work everyone
Not much progress in this matter after the DGCA reply. The petition that I had sent to Home Ministry has recently been forwarded by them to DGCA to take "further action as deemed fit in this matter". We already had a positive reply from DGCA earlier. Now we have to wait for DGCA to come up with the policy.... and in India everything moves really slow. We have made our points known. Now there is no alternative but to wait.
deleted. see next post.
Even Countries like South Africa have established rules;
http://www.safedrone.co.za/
Whereas our officials are still passing the time.
If the decision is for top business tycoons, it will be made in minutes.
What is there for doing it for general public ?
They are really slow on this.
Looks like some movement
Which newspaper bro? Please post high resolution picture
Nothing but fear-mongering by IAF and different agencies. Even though DGCA was positively inclined in favour of recreational users, I think such irrational fear-mongering will compel them to take measures which will make flying impossible. Just notice how many times the word "threat" has been used in the article.
Nobody is rationally thinking about the range and capability of a "drone" with a 15 minute battery life and limited payload capacity. Worldwide, I think there has not been a single instance of a terror attack using a "drone" by which I mean a quadcopter, simply because its not feasible and effective. Its much easy to take a car or a human laden with bomb and explode it. When these people talk about "drones" the picture they have in mind is that of the ones which basically resemble aeroplanes and used by mainly US to kill terrorists. If an attack at all happens, it will be using those real drones and not using quadcopters.
Unfortunately, India still doesn't have the capability to build a real drone. After Pakistan recently bombed terrorists using such drones built in collaboration with China, Indian government in a knee-jerk reaction approached Israel for purchasing such drones.
The longer this discussion on "drones" drag on, the more likely it is that the policy that would come would be detrimental for recreational users.
This was an article from dna 04-10-15 edition
Repeated obstruction of fire-fighting helicopters by drones has caused USA to make it compulsory to register drones. This is likely to affect the policy being drafted by DGCA.
Registration is not necessarily a bad thing. In our letters and petitions we had written about registration. But in India, a registration process is likely to include lots of red-tape. So I mentioned a process of online self-registration. Let's see what kind of controls DGCA imposes on recreational users after this change in US policy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-will-require-drones-be-registered-n446266
http://gizmodo.com/report-drone-owners-will-now-have-to-register-with-the-1737038255
Well.... registering may not be that simple in India as a host of incorrect practices may just crop in.... What could be more useful is....
1. The police gets the guidelines clear from the DGCA to allow such planes being flown at a stipulated distance from the airfield / public places / places of public interest.
2. In case someone wishes to use these machines for photography of these places a simple written permission from the police should be sufficient with the flier taking responsibility of loosing control and hurting someone or damaging something.
3. Flying close to airports could invite a fine or a ban on individuals flying or maybe even more. Apart from taking clearance from the Police such flying could only be permitted in non flying times and so permission from the Airport too may be added.
I take a different angle. Its been now over several years since these autonomous/camera flights are happening all around the world. How many incidents have happened that have caused loss of property/lives ? Very few, if at all.
Cars and bikes are way more dangerous, in that sense
Govt. Shouldnt panic, and neither should aeromodellors. India has wayyyyyy tooooo many places to fly . Just go a few miles outside the city and fly anywhere. No police, no issues whatsoever.
Dont fly in city, dont fly over public, events etc.. dont get lured into taking pictures etc and you will not have any issues.
Fly responsibly, fly safe.
Absolutely!!! I second every word of Gaurav.
Fly Responsibly and Fly Safe.
Yesterday DGCA sent me a copy of a letter which they have written to MHA. Along with their letter they enclosed my whole letter written to them and their previous reply to me.
Earlier, MHA forwarded to DGCA the letter which I had written to them. That letter only covered the security related proposals.
It appears that things have fallen into a bureaucratic infinite loop.
If it sounds confusing, I had written different letters to MHA and DGCA (through PMO). MHA had earlier sent their copy to DGCA for "necessary action" and now DGCA has sent their copy to MHA.
So who is taking the decision? or is everybody trying to push the ball to the others' court? So far it was DGCA which was taking the decisions. But now it seems that MHA and IAF have a greater say in the matter because of "security concerns". Now what will MHA do with the letter ???
In the meantime there is no news on the rules.Apparently "security concerns" expressed by both MHA and IAF has complicated the matter and delayed the formulation of the new rules. In the meantime, the issue of (non-requirement of) licensing and registration in the USA mentioned in my letter has become irrelevant as FAA now proposes to register drones with US Transport Department. Such things will continue changing. DGCA cannot keep waiting infinitely for USA to finalize policies.
India has not changed. While other countries have formulated their own laws on UAVs according to their own requirements, India keeps writing letters and waiting for others to take decisions. The system never changes in India. :(
(http://s24.postimg.org/lonccqepx/ack.jpg)
Insane!!! How we are falling in the trap......
What I feel is that DGCA initially started with a positive attitude. But negative opinion from MHA and IAF forced them to take a hardline approach in this matter. And the worst thing that happened (apart from a spate of drone related incidents in India) was the US decision to register all drones. There is no way that DGCA will now think about allowing drones and other UAVs without registration. Even the self-registration system that we proposed pro-actively will no longer be acceptable to them in the light of the recent developments.
Their is one way to it
That I found better then the rest
We need to go to the court
I know what replies I am going to get but its like fight for your rights ,if not today tomorrow someone will have to ...