Just came across this :
ARF building service :
http://indianhobbies.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=31_66&products_id=260&zenid=6262372c351ab1d28f207f005158a0cc

I guess the next thing would be that "If you are overwhelmed by flying your airplane, we will fly and you can watch " !

I don't find it surprising   

I know a few people who are always trying to push the envelope in flying.  And they are interested only in flying.  For them, crashes are very common, and they do not find it enjoyable to be fixing balsa with epoxy anymore (there are couple who do the same with helis, so it is replacing parts). They do derive a lot of fun in tuning their engines, trimming their aircraft, experimenting with gyros on multiple channels, and so on...  but they do NOT like building (and re-building) any more. 

Probably they had their fair share of building already 

Another set of people who MAY benefit from this are the absolute newbies.

Just the fact that such a service is advertised in a pointer to the need (or existence of customers) for the same.

Quote from: anwar on November 09, 2009, 04:32:13 PM
I don't find it surprising   

I know a few people who are always trying to push the envelope in flying.  And they are interested only in flying.  For them, crashes are very common, and they do not find it enjoyable to be fixing balsa with epoxy anymore (there are couple who do the same with helis, so it is replacing parts).

You made me think what kind of people they would be.
People who are constantly trying to improve flying would not be really crashing so frequently. Also those who care about precision would not let anyone else build their - Design>Plane>Arf>Assembly , in that order  .
The reckless ones would be always crashing, but then would they pay extra to get their broken stuff built by someone else  ?

Still not sure who would be the ones who are regularly crashing airplanes !

Quote from: gauravag on November 09, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
You made me think what kind of people they would be.
People who are constantly trying to improve flying would not be really crashing so frequently.

That depends on what "improve" means    For example, the people I know do torque rolls (rudder almost touching the ground at times), rolling circles that are no more than 2 or 3 feet above the ground and so on. So I am not sure if that is "improve"ment in your sense of the word, I just think of it as pushing the envelope in flying.  It is a quite entertaining to watch though.  Same deal with helis.  You must have seen the pro 3D heli flyers and how low they do stuff.  Some would call it reckless, but they do have targets, and they are quite sure their flying skills are improving the lower they do it.  And they crash all the time.  If they were to do the routine kind of flying, they would probably never crash, but they are setting progressively tougher targets for themselves.

Quote from: gauravag on November 09, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
Also those who care about precision would not let anyone else build their - Design>Plane>Arf>Assembly , in that order  .
The reckless ones would be always crashing, but then would they pay extra to get their broken stuff built by someone else  ?

That again depends on how much you trust the person doing the build.  And that trust is earned over time. 

Believe me, I see it all the time, and it seems to make sense. 

There are also the real busy folks, who can just get to the field barely for couple of hours a week, but want to try different planes.  So they get their ARFs built by the shop folks, and they just trim it and fly.  Of course almost all of these are people with enough dough to cover their modus operandi.

"Given unlimited resources and time, almost ANY software could be built. Its the constraints that's the problem to solve." This is an infamous software engineering principle, which hold true for all engineering and hobby like ours.

Having all the money and availability, and the overwhelming charm of flying is what drives people to go for RTF, ARF, and complete Kits. This is not totally wrong in itself. Just like invention of new medicine has decreased human mortality rate, existence and (mutual) success of Model manufacturers/Hobbyist have only brought more and more people into the hobby. I can draw a similar (and rather sad) analogy of another exiting hobby, which is dying due lack of equipment and other factors. Ham Radio never took off well in India. This hobby is more concentrated on designing, building, experimenting with transmitter/Rx/antenna and score of other equipment. But the sheer challenge in constructing such 'Home Brew', leaving to design a new one, stopped even  Enggineering grads who got the license, from pursuing the hobby(FYI, HAM Rigs are not even Restricted items in the Customs Import Control book) . The other aspect of the hobby is talking to complete strangers over the Radio, in a very cultured manner. This hobby is ancestor of all Chatting/Social networking we see today and greatly harmed by Internet itself. If we had cheaper/abundant availability of Rigs, many of those students could have pursued it, and later with experience, designed/built their own.

Its like chicken and egg problem and not all are Wright brothers. You would always have People who only 'Buy and Fly'. While others who do both - use ARF to fulfill flying thirst, and then do some experimentation with scratch builds too (from kits/plans/complete design). There would be still some people who fly only their own built/designed planes. I can bet the pride and anguish of the last cult would surpass those of other 2 with every maiden flight/crash by miles. That's eternity.
Learn to Fly -> Learn to Fix broken planes -> Tweak/mod -> Build from Plans -> Design your own. This is most promising path one may take, instead to trying Wright brothers to build first and re-invent the wheel.

You would find some curious faces gleaning to your scratch built planes, if you inspire them, encourage them, guide them, the may soon join your league. If you are totally involved in your accomplishment, they would soon gets frustrated and go the ARF path. And here I am talking about the masses. There would still another class (like this kid Sabu/Pickle6, if I am spelling right), who would never need to see/guide some one and mend his way. This is of a little rare species.

This hobby a bit unique one, and more than legends, we need encouraging environment. A sleepy town's unofficial club may be more successful than a up town filthy rich city club, if they right kind of people.

Lets strike the balance and inspire others. Its hard time for beginner like me. I ordered the book "Fly Rc Tips, Tricks, & Techniques.. by David Baker, Walter Sidas", to help me before I start getting active guidance from seniors in the field.  More and more reports of scratch builds, right from plan, BOM, tips and tricks, new learning, video/photos etc would help more than anything.

Hats off to folks like Anwar bhai/Mr Sai to repeatedly pinching the community.

Signing off. Its only Monday and I shouldn't blabber more.

-Uj

Uj -  Dude...  you are on a roll (the kind I like ) !

Yes, we need to be accommodating of the various branches of this hobby.  Like you said, the earlier in the life of a model you get involved, the more personal it is, the more pleasure it is. Starting from local materials and doing a scratch build makes it much more rewarding than building an ARF. But that should not be a reason to look down on the efforts of others, who just concentrate on some other aspects of this wonder hobby.

PS: BTW Gaurav, I did not mean at all that you have any ill feeling towards people who fly most of the time, and build only rarely. I was just pointing out the need to recognize that different people have different circumstances and hence different ways of doing things.

  I think this Ujjwal dude is the kind of the species who should write Novels/text books. I mean how could you even generate so much text/info to write?

Probably this service is for those people also who are very much interested in RC and barely have any time build and have a little more money to spare so that they can order the plane with custom specifications, like a particular brand servo, engine fixed and so on

Saw this on IndianHobbies, but there are other folks that also do this locally for a price. Mr. Eshwar is one who's been doing this for years in Bangalore. Like what Anwar posted, his friend took several years to finish up some of his models. Building a scale model for example won't be possible in a few months time even given daily work and other responsibilities. The building service is surely good, but quality should also be top-notch to be valuable!! 

Quote from: gauravag on November 09, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
I guess the next thing would be that "If you are overwhelmed by flying your airplane, we will fly and you can watch " !

LOL 

good Idea    and  the plane could be flown  over  the paddy fields in Trishur  while Anwar  watches its  Live Video in Qatar    as long as the services are paid for it would be  .

Virtual  Air show is also possible for those who don't want to go to the field on Sunday Morning 

Sai

Quote from: rcforall on November 09, 2009, 09:12:04 PM
good Idea    and  the plane could be flown  over  the paddy fields in Trishur  while Anwar  watches its  Live Video in Qatar    as long as the services are paid for it would be  .

Not everyone has RC has a full time profession If I get to that enviable position, I would probably say the same

Or may be not.  I may start offering proper solid builds of ARFs for others as a service, and make a new division and revenue stream out of that (gotta think like a businessman) !  Then I can hire and provide employment to all the "only-building-no-flying" folks in the neighborhood, letting them do something they love full time

Seriously though, Gaurav picked the right title for this thread, it is either "shortage of time" or "shortage of skill" that usually calls for this "service" to be utilized.

Dear Ujjwal
Many of us have more than one hobby and each one finds a little more passion in anyone of the hobbies.
Your statement is surprising, saying that Ham radio is a dying hobby  , I dont know for how many years you have been in Ham Radio , here in Bangalore the oldest Ham Radio Club since 1959 Bangalore Amateur Radio Club celebrated its Golden Jubilee last weekend and hosted HAMFEST INDIA 2009 an all India event, a Festival of Hams, more than 700 ham delegates congregated here in Bangalore for 3 days, where we had many presentations on homebrewing, contests, latest digital modes , Ham Satellite operation, technical topics, display of many homebrew eqpts etc related to ham radio  etc.

I particpated in this event with great interest, being with ham radio since 1990, it was nice to see many very senior hams like Sampath VU2YZ, Mani VU2SE, Anu VU2ANU wife of  late Sulu VU2GV who were the founder members of BARC in 1959. I have mingled and learnt from many other senior hams in Bangalore (like Pratap, VU2POP), who are good homebrewers and contribute to the development of the hobby.

Indian Hams have built Satellite tranponders in their homes and submitted to respective space agencies for flight qualifications which have proved that hams are upto date in technology and skills. 
India Hams built and launched a HAMSAT for their own use, its a great achievement that Indians are upto date on technology,
Similarly many hams have designed ham radios and related items which are built & praised by many foreign hams.   

Yes mobile phones and internet has erroded the interest of many who lost interest of talking over Radio.
Whatever you may say Ham Radio is the second line of communication in any disaster or calamity and Hams have always proved it, during the recent Tsuanami, Gujrat earthquake, Orissa super cyclone etc, mobile towers were destroyed , telephone lines down electricity down , it was ham radio communication setup right from the affected areas passing on messages.

Can you talk to an International Space Station (ISS)  crew on your mobile phone, no you can only do it on Ham Radio. I know many of my ham friends from Bangalore who have spoken with crew. Its exciting ! 

Nowadays you can get a legally imported Handy's for < 5K (Including Duties & Shipping) locally.

Finally lets know why you lost interest ? is it because you could not find the right path to develop your ham radio skills and get on air.
Please let us know your callsign ?

Ham Radio is the only Hobby recognised by the Geneva Council as an International Hobby.

So my dear friend I suggest that you continue in Ham Radio and you too could contribute to many new comers positively.
I am sure you are aware of ham discussion forums and if you need guidance or info please ask there or contribute to development.

Finally my apologies to other members here for using up bandwidth, lets discuss about Aeromodelling in full length here , similar group forums on various other hobbies co-exists and may be discussed accordingly.

Sanjay Singh (VU3NOV)

Great Reply Sanjay 

Atleast the person with half knowledge will gain some knowledge.

Wow ! Thanks... that was an eye opener on Ham radio, especially in terms of activity in India 

[I hope Mods wont mind the off topic, as this would be last post, on a hobby no less technical than Aeromodeling ]
Hi Sanjay,

I have all due respect for HAMs and infact I am half HAM having  successfully constructed a modified NR60 Tx/Rx with help of VU3NWZ(Naushad, moved to US) and VU2MMP, Mr MM Prasad (silent Key). I was in class 9th then and even after passing Grade 2 ASOC xams, I never got my license from WPC. 3-4 years later, while I was studying in Delhi, I paid 2 visits to WPC to enquire, only in vain. While at IIT Roorkee, I again tried to get mine as well as my institute's station license, only to be told that the proximity of Army's (Bengal Sappers) Signal Training center across the institutes wall would never allow station/HAMs!! This story would make ppl realize, why I am so pissed off with authorities as in few of my earlier posts. 

Last 5 years were a hectic life in SW company, as much cursed by people as its product used, and I could not pursue HAM/Aero even when in Hyderabad(home of NIAR). While I did pursue my latest acquired hobby photography, which I more attribute to easy availability of equipment(no customs hassle) and abundent company of people, even though equally costly.

I think I missed the BLR hamfest, as I am also preparing for ASOC again, while resurrecting my NR60 rig with AD 8051/DSP VCO. I know this is another loooong wait, before I am on AIR (connect between HAM and Areomodeling) ! Ping you some time for an eye ball sometime

Thanks to other modelrs if you still took the pain to read this post.   
   
-Ujjwal