RC India

        All respected Modellers.. Friends and Colleagues..   we all listens to music, in various ways.. for some, its may be just a used noise, while working, for some, is simple enjoyment, for some is crative.. and for some it will be the deepest inspiration with deep dreams and fantacies.. yes sure, to me, i am one of them who is inspired by each and every song, in various moods,and dreams a lots while hearing a music, and i flies to an other world with my dreams.. i clearly know, nothing can bring such a happiness, relief, recovery in the Mother Nature.. and to me, listening the music is not a process.. but it is a routine, with various modes of musics in hours.. so, again i clearly know there must be many like me, who all are submerged in the ocean of music..
       Listening the music to us was a great aspect around 90s and 2000 s.. after that we saw an immense growth in subwoofer systems.. all we then started to wander behind it.. interested people sported to buy various innovations in it.. while ignoring many facts about it.. even today many of my Friends are not aware about the phrasings of sub woofer systems.. a 5.1 and 5+1 are differ.. in 5.1, we will get one tweeter, one speeker, and half subwoofer for each side..so, X2 is 5.. simple conversion of ordinary stereo system.. but in 5+1, we will get one tweeter, one full range, half mid range and half subwoofer.. and in to two.. more exciting while properly placed.. but a true system is 7+1.. great.. but all these are coming with a single subwoofer.. and all we know, just like our eyes, ears also have a little timing to distinguish various audio freequencies from a single source.. brain must need some fractions of seconds to calculate the depth of the various frequencies, coming from various sound sources.. only then brain can asses the depth and variations from a spectrum of sound..

actually, we lost this when we sat in front of the sub woofer with a great frequency boosting.. around 60 Hz, subwoofer thuds in a violent manner, and depresses our ear drum in a constant manner.. restricting the ear drum to follow other low, med and high notes, in time.. in reality, we lost the real value of the music, and merges in a BHOOM.. here came the importance of the Hi Fi system, considered as old.. old..??  never.. is experience.. by last some days, i realizes that i lost some of my old VHS and audio Cassetes of my ever favourite valuable collections.. so, i was in a great effort to recover all lost songs and videos and recovered about 99 %.. so happy.. then i realized the limitations, while listening the songa in subwoofer system.. even at low bass levels, and even with expensive systems.. feel bad.. so, i turned to my old Aiwa audio system, by brushing it all from dust.. its about 21 years old now.. after connecting system came in to life without any fail and the music was just like from heaven.. but the system is too big, and with high wattage.. and i want to listen music while in bed.. so, only way to think my own.. so i started searching all over my old traing notes, circuits, and applications.. with some hardwork, i synchronized a good system, for me as compact.. very compact.. with a feature of off set speaker system, one produces off set ambience when placed in a 90 degree corner..

so, my idea was these..
must be very compact, will be with own speaker system, will be controlled with remote, and must be equipped with USB port, must be with mic function for karaoke, must be compatible with oscilloscope.. for audio editing.. and yes weightless and with wheels.. so, making a good enjoyable audio reproduction from a tiny space is only can by sound wave guids.. so, the primary design was on it.. and i realized it at first.. while combining three high power 3 inch full range speaker in a wave guide colum.. after some trial and error i reached in a amazing results.. so, i incorporated this in to a tiny envelop for adding the integrated amplifiers and others.. while keeping an aspect of easy servicing criteria.. so, i realized this with foam board and some plywoods.. and with keeping an aspect of audio editing, i finished this one in to a console, that can be easily moved to anywhere we like.. in studio, and all cables are hidden in main cable, for a tidy appearence.. so, this avatar born..and i realizing the real value of the music at present.. even with hours of music ears never fatigued.. heavenly music deep from soul..

nothing is purchased for this machine but i searched all around me and found all needed material including components.. at beginning my idea was to add this unit with STK 465 or with STK 4191, as both ICs are my favourite ever.. but realizing the rate of its power i changed my mind with compact and less power ICs.. so, from my years of experience, i clearly know the TDA series is the best.. so to avoid dual supply, i choosed the TDA 2009 ST here and it wired for full fledge.. at 15.5 volts and 5 amps it is a roaring lion.. three ICs are same, as two drives the left and right while the thirdth one drives the ambience speaker.. live depth.. all the while.. main feature of this unit is individual graphic manual equalizers.. an unmatched quality in listening.. no electronic mess.. and also added pulse out for feeding a PA amp in need and digitalization.. can feed from any audio source with matching impedance.. a built in AGC also avoids sudden flutter in audio gain.. another feature incorporated is freequency shift.. for more ambience.. when it placed in a room about 1/3 of the length, it can reproduce heavenly music notes to our ear with great depth in need.. from this unit i feels that the voice of Lathaji, is flying towards me from heaven of music..

 :o :o :o :o {:)} {:)} {:)}

also added the provision to connect external speakers capable of 12 watt RMS, when karaoke programes take place.. most of us buys cheap karaoke oriented systems by spending even 6 to 7 thousand rupees while ignoring the fact that nothing in it for 70000 Rs... here i used the real circuit based from my training notes with international standard circuit.. and components.. works like a dream.. with crystal clear voice reproduction.. all of the main console is foam board.. the base from scraped plywood.. and wheels from an old computer table.. it is easy to remove the cover and service.. all done in general purpose PCB.. all stickers are printed in A4 paper.. then cut & paste.. the big knob is for main volume while two tiny controls the depth..

Satz..this is not a show off.. but we all know that we have lots of  music lovers among us and yes singers.. my this humble work may inspire us all.. and see waht we can do with handy things.. !! be inspired.. because we are RC INDIANS... :salute:

for additional depth of music, i added a TC reverse switch for the thirdth channel..
another nostalgic addition.. the analog VU meter.. driven by a filtered BC 148 B transistor network, i calibrated it with my digital calibrating systrem, that converted my PC in to oscilloscope.. it is nice to see while working..

i kept the entire power supply unit as opened, and this also eliminates the noise disturbance with eddy currents.. cools well in high loads.. is 26-0-26 volt 5 Amps transformer about 25 years old.. and i dusted it out from my unused collections..
see the off set speaker layouts..

the castor wheels for easy moving..
and this one will be my companion from now.. changing the music listening in to a heavenly experience..!!

 {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} :bow:

so make it.. listen it.. realize our life.. if anyone intersted will share the build logs, and circuits..  :salute:

thanks for the inspiration Vineet.. :salute:
here is the sticker that i used.. worked with software and printed in A4 paper.. more easy to make.. so try always.. :thumbsup:

Great Roopakrishna,

i remember  using STK 459 building my own amplifiers, just superb. i misght have realized & made about 15 odd ones, all using different biasing & mostly using ICs & few powerful ones using transistors (2N 3055).

this reminds me that its been 16~17 years for me & they still rock...

Thanks for this update.

Cheers!

Sandeeji.. great to hear.. and at present we acts and connives to the available stuffs because of our helplesness.. it is unmatched that the quality of old integrated amplifiers.. and the words regarding to the 2N 3055 is goosefleshing.. immense power.. and so happy to hear some crative and very positive words from you.. "this reminds me that its been 16~17 years for me & they still rock... "  is sure.. all circuits are engineered for perfection.. now we missing it.. a lots.. but me, not now..
going back.. with old is gold..  thanks once again for the great inspiration.. :salute: :salute: :salute:

I am also a music lover. i listen the songs in my bed in peace and goes far beyond in the world of dreams.
As roopeshji said , todays songs ( not all ) irritate the ears a lot. with their peculiar sound and high bass. Old songs use to  maintain the balance of each instruments sound.
Toady speakers in market are on basis of watts output and not on frequency.
BOSE still gives more emphasis on frequency. Bose speakers are one of the best .

roopesh,

you are always from one of the great  inspirational people from the forum ,
who always starts something different , interesting and helpful and complete it in very neat  manner,   glad we are together.

south india has very good talent..

I second that.
Great inspiration and talent.

Swiz.. its true.. and Vineet, all we are INDIANS.. not south and north.. at border, may be in bone freezing cold, or may be in skin burning heat, our brave soldiers keeps our peace of Nation, with watchful eyes, with only one mind.. thers no south,north,caste,or religion.. !! we all try always and shares our ideas.. some are amazing when compared.. music and art is surely the gift to us from Almighty.. and i am only one among us.. and i am trying to inspire you all, as all you inspires me with your ideas.. once again.. million thanks for the inspirations.. have nice musics.. :salute:

Quote from: roopeshkrishna on May 28, 2012, 10:35:55 PM
so make it.. listen it.. realize our life.. if anyone intersted will share the build logs, and circuits..  :salute:

That would be lovely! Please include pictures of the insides of the main unit. It would give everyone an idea of how it could be put together. How did you design the PCBs for the controls etc. And what dac have you used for the digitlal input?

Awaiting this information with eagerness.

+1

Roopesh!
look into your first couple of posts, something is not connecting, with my limited electronic acumen i can tell you for sure, you need to revisit your first couple of threads and correct these errors. Super colour combo, very catchy, quite like your boats

Sir, at first i was trying to tell about the heavy bass notes that emerges from sub woofer.. according to my training notes, if we examine, a Hi Fi (High Fidelity) audio system, we can simply found at least two frequency controls, as bass and Trebble... and main feature of these controls are, at middle position, it will show us as "0", and towards left, its - side and towards right, its + side.. and if we kept all three, means Bass, Trebble, and Prescence ( in costly sets), at "0", and if connected to the needed speaker system, of manufacturer, and played a song, in a volume level, that, required in the service manual, with VU level,    as peak, imagine we are going to listen a Tabla notes, at this level of controls and volume level, described by manufacturer, in service manual, the notes coming out of the speaker must be in a manner of a real Tabla play, at in front of us.. means, it must like as real as a real Tabla playing in front of us.. it deaviates according to room set ups, and arrangements of speakers.. but still it will be 80 % true.. and i checked with Tabla, many times, and amazed.. because, i always think about the dedication of the team of engineers who painstakingly developed old systems.. such machines are not designed to make a big noise, but to reproduce the music lively in front of us..  i have a good collections of such machines, in my scrap room, as Sony FH 7, FH 22, Beast, Panasonic, O55 B, Hitachi HT 61 T, and more.. such machines are too good in audio reproduction.. but heavy and cumbersome..  this is my considerations.. may vary to seniors.. and no argue.. but still i love to hear live music through the real full range speaker system, with a little depth, as i described.. nothing can bring such a sheer happines in life..  :salute: :salute: :salute:

Sushil Sir, will add all circuits here.. its nothing extra ordinary.. as i mentioned, at first i was waiting to use STK ICs.. but soon realized its power ratio.. so, i turned to my spare collection, and found lots of TDA 2005, 2007 and 2009.. as i know 2009 is most versatile, and simple, i choose it.. and tested with LA 4440, and LA 4445, along with UPC 1230, but not satisfied.. so i again turned to TDA 2009.. its a perfect IC for a great sound reproduction in great quality at low amplitude..  and i made the main PCB for power amp, with my great friend, who is a PCB designer, Mr Rafeeq, helped me a lots.. and the equalizers are purchased from market many years before.. its based on LM series ICs.. the mic driver is based on again LM ICs.. the accoustic wave guide is adopted from old speaker systems as folded horn designs.. with guides.. all guides from foam boards.. to avoid vibratios i used SR glue to seal it all.. the vent is opened at bottom of the case, near to the base.. this also gives me a reflected waves at 90 degree shift when i am in bed.. the VU meter is based on transistorised circuits.. the pulse out is from a RCI based compromising circuit.. published in EFY.. once.. the Digital input is based on card reader.. it is liberally available in market with remote controller.. and a multi flat cable is used for Analog inputs.. the D to A converter is based on a circuit i noted from a professional amp.. but eliminated, because i do not need it.. will add all used circuit here one by one.. still the unit is working now.. cool.. and inspires me a lots.. all forgotten music is alive back.. and i feels the life is too sweet even when i am alone.. with walls all around me.. the music takes us in to love.. excitement.. nostalgia.. child hood.. hope.. and inspiration to live.. its amazing..

we starts from power supply circuit.. today we have ample of powersupply uints as SMPS.. one can simply purchase a computer powersupply, and can short the coloured leads as black and grey, or in some as green and grey.. check it..   but here in my experience, nothing can match a regulated powersupply, made off a good transformer.. we need a good transformer, well wound, well insulated, and specially designed for audio applications with heavy core set up.. here i used a 26-0-26 volts 5 Amps transformer.. as i got it from my old collection.. and amazes the old thing is still young in working.. !!  to rectify i used high Amps diodes.. so, after rectification, added a 4700 UF 65 volts heavy duty capacitor, and final voltage came as 28 at load of 1 amps as bleed.. each diode was backed up with 104 High voltage disc capacitors , and 122 high voltage capacitors, to eliminate ripples.. after that i connected to a second bank of capacitor, again 4700 UF 65 volts capacitor.. this voltage is feeded to a power transistorised circuit, as darlington pair, with TIP 3055, with SL 100, and the base voltage was controlled by a 7815 regulator, whose center lead is controlled by a 1.7 volt L E D.. this giave me a 15.5 volts even at load.. as i need only a 13 .2 volt for a good operation, the above voltage gave me a stunning working all the while.. a 1000 Ohms bleeder resistor used as a surge protector.. the final voltage is splitted as two.. one 12 volts from main amp board, for euqlizer, other circuits.. the power circuit follows that i used..

Most of 0.5k priced SMPSs are underrated. 400w SMPS shows 12 Volt 14A.
But the diodes internallu found for 3A with HeatSink.
HF Transformers coil windings are found not suitable for even 10A.
-------(Skin effect is also dominant in HF Transformers, so effective crossection becomes 0.5 in 10-1000KHz.)

So, Power transformers and Power diodes are much more well suited rather than Computer SMPS.

But Custom SMPS with E50 or similar core (1KW or more) is much cost effective and lighter.
They are used in High power branded systems. One can search the circuits easily by "1KW SMPS"
Here (http://w5jgv.com/hv-ps1/index.htm)
And can design converters here. (http://www.poweresim.com/?ApplicationIdx=9&ChangeApplication=9)

Roopesh

Looking forward to the circuits and pictures of the insides of your impressive unit.

A few questions that have me stumped:

1. What are T1 and T2 for? 2. Where are the analogue inputs? Can't see them in any of your pics. Missed them? 3. Some more info on the card reader with remote, please.  4. How does one figure out what's on the "card" and select the tracks? 5. What does TC Reverse actually do? 6. What is "pulse out"?


Thanks in advance.

Kalyan.. its true.. and still using good hand wound transformers, myself.. for audio applications..
Sushil sir, at present, i am working this unit on card reader.. so, for a tidy appearence, i binded all needed cables inside the cabinet.. and can take out when in need.. but at present, we are not in a need to feed the unit from an auxilary source, like Phono disc player, DVD player, or channel mixer.. but the entire unit is based on a simple digital card reader, as liberally used in car players..
here T1 and T2 denotes additional tracks, along with externally connectable high watt rated speakers..  this additional track settings gives us a little deep streach in audio out, as i wired the both inside speakers with reverse direction.. as it is small compared to the big, connected, the phase shit will not affect badly, in harmony with total output.. and here my ambition is to hear the music in a lively volume level, that comfort to us.. the total main volume is controlled by the remote controller, as left and right, with card reader.. an additional main volume is provided for easy control..
TC reverse, provided here, to revesre the left and right tracks, to the main big speakers, while use in a karaoke system.. the sub small speaker is driven by TDA 2005 each.. while bigs are by TDA 2009.. one of the main feature of these ICs are the good quality output, especially when we choose appropriate capacitors..

here i am taking out, the in cables...

Sir, we can feed to anything.. from a simple walkman, CD player.. DVD player.. Palm top for videos.. and PC.. or lap anything.. even phonodiscs.. as my phono drive employs the scratch anf rumble filters in it, i avoided adding the filters inside the amp.. working dramatically.. the depth and feel of running sound is achieved by some careful control adjustments after placing the unit in desired place.. when configured, i adjust the main volume by remote controller..

the card reader is based on a simple card reader, that can purchased from any electronics shop at present.. an audio card costs about 140 Rs/- while a video card costs about 400/-Rs.. this unit will be sold with it's own remote controller.. include 100 % functions like power on also.. track change, with number selection, reads MP3 and Audio, mute, play/pause, rewind and ffwd, parametric electronic equalizer, 6 preset equalizers, loop, repeat, favourite, and with PLL FM tuner.. nice addition.. will add one by one.. Sir, this is my humble efforts.. but got a dramatic performance, that to a music lover.. it is not possible to explain anyway.. with known words.. because music goes on.. and on.. and on..

the pulse out, was taken out to feed the oscilloscope for signal referance.. but soon i realized, present softwares need not it, as it can dot all itself.. so i changed it in to controlled electro stimulation, pulse, that we can choose the pulse from any audio source, as pulsed or continuos.. can feed with electronic key board, for a constant audio pulse, or can go for various by programming the key board, and the pulse amplified by a step up transformer inside, while using with 12 volt battery for powering, and gives me a good relief in my back pain issues.. and freezing lug..
will add the used circuits, card reader, power circuits.. and all with wave guides..  :salute:

Roopesh

I think it is time you came clean on your fraudulent claims. You have gone through this before, apologised, but are back to your old ways. You DO have talent. Nurture it. Give up on the - unnecessary, in my opinion - BS.

Please do not miscontrue this any kind of threat. But there is much too much evidence to shoot your claims to smithereens. Would you like it made public?

Its your call.

This post is repeated in another thread, which is of direct concern to my field.

Sir, my works are simple and humble, and to me, these efforts are heavenly, and i know my efforts are humble, and not claims my works are ultimate.. but still i will continue my works, as my life is for it..  :salute:

can also add the turn table.. this turn table employs all filters inside, and need not any scratch or rumble filters in power amp..  and i have ample of SP and LP discs with me.. this adds more liveness in music listening..

circuits follows..

here is the basic power supply.. and do not have any printed matter.. all electrolytic capacitors are 4700 MFD.. all diodes are 6 amps.. and also need a fan for cooling the transistor..

This is the first of several posts .

"Copy-paste" quotes are from the original posts with my obsevations/comments. People can draw their own conclusions.

QuoteListening the music to us was a great aspect around 90s and 2000 s.. after that we saw an immense growth in subwoofer systems.. all we then started to wander behind it.. interested people sported to buy various innovations in it.. while ignoring many facts about it.. even today many of my Friends are not aware about the phrasings of sub woofer systems.. a 5.1 and 5+1 are differ.. in 5.1, we will get one tweeter, one speeker, and half subwoofer for each side..so, X2 is 5.. simple conversion of ordinary stereo system.. but in 5+1, we will get one tweeter, one full range, half mid range and half subwoofer.. and in to two.. more exciting while properly placed.. but a true system is 7+1.. great.. but all these are coming with a single subwoofer..

It is not only your Friends (sic) but yourself also, who are unaware.

1.   There is no such thing as a “half subwoofer” – or half speaker of any kind. How on earth could you get half a unit anyway? Half a 46 engine for a 25 size plane, anyone?

2.   A 5.1 system is for surround sound (primarily for movies). The “5” refers to the Front Left, Center, Front Right, Rear Left and Rear Right loudspeakers. The movie soundtrack is encoded with the surround information which is recovered in the AV processor and routed to the respective channels. Five, discreet, signals are therefore available to recreate the placement of the sounds. These speakers may be with small or large drivers. It is NOT 2.5 x 2! The “.1” refers to the subwoofer. This channel – sometimes referred to as LFE - low frequency effects) – reproduces signals (usually) only below 75Hz.

3.   There is also 7.1 decoding which adds two speakers to the rear. Only for use if your room is rather long. Never heard of a 5+1 or 7+1 system. Do educate me on this. Ever willing to learn.

Quoteat 15.5  volts and 5 amps it is a roaring lion.. three ICs are same, as two drives the left and right while the thirdth one drives the ambience speaker.. live depth.. all the while

A quick look at the TDA 2009 data sheet specifies an output of a little over 2.5 watts into an 8 ohm load at the specified voltage. With so little output available, the lion would get laryngitis and his roar would be reduced to a whisper!

Quote.. main feature of this unit is individual graphic manual equalizers.. an unmatched quality in listening.. no electronic mess..

Do check out amplifiers used for quality audio reproduction. They are invariably WITHOUT equalizers or tone controls of any kind in order to AVOID “electronic” or other “mess”!


 

Sushil Sir, a million thanks for the guidance and corrections.. i have a lots to learn from you..  :salute: :salute: :salute:

Sorry to disagree. I and posibly millions of other music lovers insist on good quality graphic equalizers. Try listening to a flat non equalized piece of music in a tiled floor, concrete walled room with no curtains and steel framed furniture. Then listen to the same music in a room with heavily carpeted floor, with heavy well padded furniture and equally heavy curtains. The frequencies lost and absorbed in one room will reverberate in the other.

Now introduce the good quality graphic equalizer or even a bass, mid and treble control in the amplifier. The difference in both rooms is astounding. Boosting lost lower frequencies and cutting higher over shadowing frequencies will allow the music to be tailor made to anyone's ears. Plus, what is good for a 16 year old will be sadly lacking to a 66 year old listener.

I have had much to do with setting up venues for amplified music and vocal use. Early in the evening many frequencies are overpowering and require cutting or attenuating. Later in the evening when the venue is full of people those frequencies which were cut earlier now require boosting while other frequencies require drastic cutting. A simple change of venue and everything is changed. personally I much prefer the old 70s type amplifiers compared with the plastic inneficient systems of today. I refer of course to the average HiFi systems available to the masses not the over hyped so called audiophile systems costing 3 years wages to own. I assisted with the hit musical Jesus Christ Superstar in my younger days and in my opinion the audience was treated to a wonderful never to be forgotten musical experience. Without said graphic equalizers the same experience would be sadly lacking and extremely forgettable. Up to 50 people on stage at one time and everyone had their own microphone and seperate channel with seperate channels for each and every instrument in the orchestra. Three 48 channel mixers, 144 channels with their own full range equalizer.

Today I have 16 terrabytes of flat unreworked audio files. but on release from their hard drive each and every frequency is analysed and if need be boosted or cut to suit. Now when using headphones it's an entirely different ballgame.

Kindest regards  Stuart

PS: when it comes to music I'm not sure if I become part of the music or it becomes part of me.

I can agree only partly with your comments.

You have been primarily associated with PA equipment (of very high quality, I am sure). The requirements are quite different to a high quality home audio system. Many call it a purist approach and in many ways it is.

You have given the example of  "Try listening to a flat non equalized piece of music in a tiled floor, concrete walled room with no curtains and steel framed furniture" and then comparing the change after equalisation. That is very much like saying that an SUV is essential just because it can go on dirt roads and over many obstacles! Yes, try doing that with a Ferrari. It won't happen. So, by your logic, an SUV is the better of the two!

As for your comment on "16 years vs 66", I would just like to tell you that my hearing was last tested a year ago and was adequate right upto the highest frequency measurable on the audiometer.

To most youngsters, MP3 sounds great. To many digits are digits and there cannot be a difference between  players. Ergo, a DVD player should sound as good as a high end, dedicated CD player. Am always ready to demonstrate that this ain't so.

And I do not, ever, feel the need to "analyse every frequency". I listen to music with my ears and not an oscilloscope. A good ear can - and does - hear differences that are often unmeasurable.

Finally, my comment on high quality HOME systems not having tone controls stands absolute. May be the designers of all that stuff and myself are all crazy. And then again, maybe not. Depends on ones point of view, I guess.


 

to me "Music is what Music does" like Rasul Pookutty said on receiving Oscar, silence is as important as the music and  both are important part of listening and am happy to be part of a place which gave this world the primordial and all reverberating "OM"

Stu

Here is about Sushil

http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/sushil-anand-an-authority-on-audio-audio-system/

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-people/sushil-anand-from-mumbai/

Sushil

Stu and you are born around the same time, similar sense of humour (You know what i mean) he is a nam veteran and an ace aeromodellor,

Quote from: roopeshkrishna on June 05, 2012, 01:27:09 PM
Sushil Sir, a million thanks for the guidance and corrections.. i have a lots to learn from you..  :salute: :salute: :salute:

Fortunately then, there is much more to come.

@ roopeshkrishna  :bow: :bow: : :bow::.... ;) ;)

Quote from: roopeshkrishna on May 28, 2012, 09:12:55 PM
        a 5.1 and 5+1 are differ.. in 5.1, we will get one tweeter, one speeker, and half subwoofer for each side..so, X2 is 5.. simple conversion of ordinary stereo system..

:headscratch: :headscratch:

@sunil sir...... :bow:  :salute:

i have a confusion on 2.5 way speaker system...... Avant 906i & my Yamaha NS-50F is referred as 2.5 way, when there is 1 tweeter & 2 woofers......... :headscratch:

After reading your response I will  bow out and run away. I've always found this to be the safest course of action when confronted with a self proclaimed "purist"

A conversation is impossible with one who is always right and allows no leeway in any matter. The LAW written many decades ago stating "There shall be no tone controls and it was so" was decided by someone using an amplifier with over generous bass, mid-range and treble controls. The electronics of the day simply wouldn't allow specific frequencies to be adjusted, it was all or none. Unlike today when an exact frequency can be be picked out and boosted or cut to make allowances for imperfectly shaped rooms with imperfectly sited speakers. Your amusing attempt to compare my comments with an SUV or Ferrari was a typical ploy used when a question is is placed in the too hard basket. Purists are simply people who have been brainwashed into thinking everything associated with musiuc happens in a perfect world. Once speakers are inserted into the equation perfection goes out the window. Unless the room where the speakers are situated is acoustically dead with no reflective surfaces, perfection is impossible to achieve.

Apart from "There shall be no tone controls" the next biggest con perpetrated by so called audiophiles was the "Oxygen free cables" Tests have been carried out on the audio elite and not one of them could reliably pick the difference between the great unwashed type speaker cables and their holy grail of perfection in wiring. But I might add not one of them would admit that their wire was no better than the substitute, some 40 times cheaper.

That is why I have no wish to attempt a reasonable conversation. By experience there is no such thing  :banghead: It's very similar to this little guy. It's like bashing your head against a wall, it's good when you stop. This good sir is where I stop. :hatsoff:

Although admitting to being one of the "unwashed" in this area
I am quite enjoying this exchange.

Its refreshing to see actual knowledge on display.

Myself ?  .... I listen to hindi songs on my mobile.

My hobby into electronics was primarily with a stepping stone of designing and making good hifi audio system,   baffles for the speakers and perfect splitting for 2/3/4  way speakers with RMS of just 20 per channel and when 50 per channel was considered out of the world when available electronics and tech know how was not there for graphic eqilisations when sound was not recorded in surround formats with multichannels.

They were some good hifi sytems with not much complicated gizmos and simple tone and bass controls which produced good faithfull music. Grown up listening to such beautiful systems.

Today advances in electronics is making it possible and within reach possibility of having a system with everything possible in it to manuplate sound boost/buck/cut any frequency. Produce artificial surround environment with music not recorded in surround format, simulate effects of music being listened to in different environment and much much more.

Today we are in a world where it is possible and  where we are fed everyday to believe that it is absolutely essential to buy everything from phone, computer, tv, car even refrigerator to have everything in it and we also want it. We want our refrigerator to remember things for us and play music for me while I cook.

But to say that it is absolutely essential to have everything in your music system to have a good hifi music experience is sic.

Wonder why a simple Boss wave guide sounds so good.

Sushil Sir  :hatsoff: to you. Eagerly waiting for some more pearls of wisdom on music systems

Quote from: Propfella on June 06, 2012, 01:08:58 AM
After reading your response I will  bow out and run away. I've always found this to be the safest course of action when confronted with a self proclaimed "purist"

Strangely, your post could well apply in reverse! I think I clearly expressed the fact that the requirements for PA (your field) and High end home audio are VERY different. That has not registered, despite fairly decent  English being used. So  '' who is always right and allows no leeway"?

I repeat. It is NOT possible to put the two in the same " hard" or otherwise basket. And, therefore, how does the analogy (Ferrari-vs SUV) become " a ploy"?

Who is being rigid in not accepting a "purist's" viewpoint just because it does not "fit in" with yours?

And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why that seems to have upset you so much.

Must be the Fosters. It does that to me more than occasionally!

And, if you wan't me to react your style. I'll say "Jesus Christ!" to the "Superstar".

Quote from: ravi18 on June 05, 2012, 11:52:16 PM
i have a confusion on 2.5 way speaker system...... Avant 906i & my Yamaha NS-50F is referred as 2.5 way, when there is 1 tweeter & 2 woofers......... :headscratch:

A "3 way" system would consist of a woofer, mid range, and tweeter, each handling their own assigned frequencies. Obviously, 3 speakers are mandatory. In a 2.5 way system, there will still be 3 speakers. Two units work in tandem for the low frequencies and "hand over" the mid frequencies to just one of them. Hence the "2.5" nomenclature.

Hope this answers your question. Feel free to ask for any additional info/clarification you need.

Wealth of info for anyone wanting to learn about audio systems. Two champions sparring and  sharing views. It's not what you see, it's what you want to see. I don't know about the others, but I am learning - a lot.

Stuart, welcome to the forum and welcome to India. We argue and some see the doughnut some see the vada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vada_%28food%29). That's the way we are in India. Since you are a Nam Vet, you earn my respect. Not for what you did or didn't do there. You earn my respect for being a part of a legendary time/ era when I was just about born.

'Don't bow, don't run and don't stop' sharing as far as Nam/Aeromodelling/Experiences/Audio are concerned, we have so much to learn from you.

Personally, I don't give a damn about the modern 'PMPO' rated systems. I bought an Indian Sonodyne system, 21 years ago, with wooden/composite speaker casings and it still renders 'perfect' notes for my uninitiated ears. My Aiwa system (with Remote Control  :giggle:), bought a few years ago, is languishing in the junk heap. 2400 W PMPO, anybody want it? I may not sell it at your price, but then, I'm an old timer.

Stay, both of you geniuses, we NEED you. Enrich us. PLEASE.

Sushil Sir, sink it.  You don't need to prove anything to the world. Sink it.

Regards,

VC

VC

The first salvo - and that too not across the bows but broadside - was not my doing. But I agree with you. Sunk in toto.

PMPO, Megapixels, million to one contrast ratios in flat panel TVs. These are the numbers game for the masses who are gullible enough to fall for it. How many know that the small sensors used in most of these cameras would give you far superior pictures in low light, and yet be just as good in normal light, with a lower pixel count? Ask any TV manufacturer to give a grey scale range (would at best go to maybe 2000+:1) and you would - for obvious reasons - get a studied silence.

And a side bet, with 2:1 odds, on whether the AIWA has an equaliser or not!

Quote from: saikat on June 06, 2012, 05:41:51 AM

Myself ?  .... I listen to hindi songs on my mobile.

And why not? I have a high quality system at home but am content with an iPod while on my walks and even in the car. Though I admit to transferring as uncompressed files since there is so much storage space now available. For me quality reproduction is a means to an end - which is to enjoy music - and not an end by itself.

thanks sunil sir....for the info

so I opened the speaker............ ;D, both woofer are in same enclosure, "no separate enclosure for mid range, so it is not 3 way but 2.5 way"......... though it's not connected in parallel but by a crossover network and working in tandem as you mention ................ :hatsoff:

PMPO.... :banghead: (Peaked Music Poorly Outputted) I too had an AIWA and it is languishing in store room now......(i hate that stupid advertise....aiwa :banghead: aiwa :banghead: aiwa :banghead:) although the system was good, 120 watt RMS/channel (as on manual) transistor amplifier, but speaker were very poor.....

Megapixel (why most people say Meghafixel...instead...  :giggle:) no one bother about CCD sensor used in these point shoot cameras, most of them are just 5mm in size compare to SLR's 24mm (Dx) or 35mm sensors of same megapixel sized camera.

now LED TV in on the game of misleading marketing......... Are these LED TV are really a LED TV....? they are just LCD TV with LED used as edge lit or back-lit replacing fluorescent tube used to lit from below earlier..... >:(

@VC sir ......... Sonodyne sounds amazing compare HiFi (PMPO) systems......definitely they will go another 21 years......no doubt

Thank you VC. Your kind words were maybe too kind. I claim to be no genius. I have a wide knowledge but because my life is involved in so many things I simply don't have the time or ability to claim to be a specialist in anything. I design and build RC Boats, I build RC helicopters and of course build aircraft from sheets of foam or complete kits. I have built two complete radio stations and achieved a far superior sound to stations costingfar more than 20 of my stations. I collect and maintain or repair stereo systems from the 60s  and 70s and listen to them at every opportunity.

I use music for entertainment, relaxation and most importantly for me for pain relief. I am disabled and in bed for 12 years and I find pain killers also kill the mind. So I rely on my Onkyo headphones and relax to whatever type of music I pick for that specific time. I consider my collection of over half a million recordings to be adequate to keep me supplied and when I've picked (By Computer) my choiceI can lay back and allow the music to wash the pain away. I suffer no after effects and feel well refreshed and pain free when I awaken.

I don't go overboard buying multi thousand dollar amplifiers with gold plated resistors.  A Marantz amplifier, a Nakamichi cassette deck or CD, DAT, MP3 and my pain vanishes. I feel perfection is an impossibility and far too much money is spent chasing it. If it sounds good it's good enough. Just a little hiss, AC Hum and the soldering iron comes out. Music is a personal thing. If it sounds awful I'll leave the room, If it sounds good to me, I'll stay. BUT nobody should say I'm wrong in what I like. Nobody has the right to say what I think is good isn't. Nobody has the right to put down my equipment least they wear it :-) Most of all music is best, happy be it Spike Jones or Chet Atkins.

Maybe now I'm not so clever but I don't feel any dumber. My hearing is fading and my kneecaps are dropping off, Life gets tedious don't it?

stu

will it help to know a saying that comes from Tamil saints of a few millennia old, which goes like this

"Kaayamae Idhu Poiyada
Verum Kaatradaitha Paiyada"

meaning, the human body is just an illusion and it is just an air filled bag, empty and useless

like proximo says in 'The Gladiator' , we are nothing but 'Shadows and Dust'

Most of cheap computer sterio speaker Power Supply is not sufficient. Even in Frintech 2.1 too.
Just give full volume and watch the brightness variation of Power LED. That means Transformer capacity is not enough.
Just add/replace more VA capacity transformer with same output voltage and feel the improvements. Of course, you have to replaceadd the power line filter capacitors to 4-10 times with low ESR ones.

I have mercury sterio speaker with TDA810 IC. But after transformer change, it gives perfect sound upto 90% volume.

But I Prefer to hear with my AIWA earphone. It takes me out from real world.

Kalyan ! i can't make out a sausage of what you have written, could you exemplify little more clearly, to keep mere mortals like me in picture

He sounds just like that guy on another forum I visit. It's not uncommon to be confused with what is posted there either. Strangely he has a way of being in another world if you know what I mean. I've yet to hear any amplifier using ICs to be "perfect" up to 90% output. Firstly no amplifier could be driven at 90% output without severe distortion. And no matter what system is used in the amplification chain, distortion, hiss and unwanted harmonics will always be be present to some degree. Simply changing a transformer and filter capacitors is no way to improve any amplifier as the output stage would have to be upgraded along with many other components. It would appear this person is as unknowing regarding audio as the "other" person is of RC matters. I hope this helps :-)

Sorry Gusty, your comments regarding "empty bags of air" not only takes me back to that person on the other forum but goes somewhat against what we were taught regarding religion. Please don't take this the wrong way as I'm not very religious in fact I've found from experience that western religion is often an excuse for bigotry and hypocrisy. Unfortunately I haven't a clue regarding India's religion. It seems rather complicated and hard for a person like myself to understand. I do know right from wrong and would never think of doing anything to harm another person physically or steal other's property and basically I guess go against what is considered wrong within the community or within myself. So maybe I live as a good Christian would but don't boast to be a religious person as far as going to church means.

I find there is good and bad in all religions that I know aboutbut as My Father told me,"never get involved in political or Religious arguments", I don't know enough about either to be able to hold a conversation or an argument. One thing I will never do is condemn anyone for believing in what they wish to believe in. But if there's one thing I hate it's religious fanatics knocking on my front door and trying to force their religion on me. It used to happen almost weekly here but I haven't seen any for a long time. I just wish everyone would be more tolerant and allow people to believe in whatever they wish as long it has no effect on those who believe differently.

Sorry mate, I hope I wasn't preaching. Just remember, as soon as one of your planes hits it's use by date let me know and I can wait for it to be delivered. Do you trade them in every few years or do you work on mileage travelled.

Now no breaking the sound barrier  and be a good boy. All the best  Stu

Hi,
Basically a power system has the capacity to deliver power at a constant voltage and avarage current rate (Max.).
And a Capacitor stores charge to supply the transient high current demand excess than the capacity of the transformer.

Now Consider the load (Electromagnatic speaker).

for a constant output peak to peak wave, the current through speaker depend on frequency too for it's inductive reactance of the magnatic circuit added with resistance which is fairly constant for any frequency.
So, speaker current will be more for low frequency sound (Specially drum beats). This low frequency beat which have a long beat continuation time, this transient time to draw high current is more than other regular continuous sound.

Now when volume increases, means the amplification factor increases, meand output waveform voltage peak to peak increases.

So, the output voltage waveform tries to increase provided the power supply is sufficient to give supply.

Now consider, the voltage supply transformer is 12 volt 100 mA, So, when your speaker is 10 ohm impedence (8 Ohm Resistance and 6 ohm reactance) it can draw a max current of (12/10A)*30% = 0.36A (taking duty cycle of that waveform as 30%). Now if your transformer have capacity of 0.1A, your Capacitor have to give the excess current from storage. At the same time, just after the beat, the capacitor have to get charged again. And to deliver this charge, voltage dip is required depending upon the capacitance and excess current quantity. So, supply voltage DIP should be present to function the storage capacitors.

Now, low mA (like 100mA) transformers have inherent internal (source)impedence added with diode drop. And the combination source impedence value depends upon the mA value of transformer.

now, if you select more volume, it works perfectly with low peak zone but clipped pick in high music zone. and this occures specially with low frequency contained music and you cannot get the continuation of the base.

In more simple, If you increase any low capacity to high capacity PS, you actually increase the RMS output (Till a range).

Or more simply It can be explained, I can widen the bottleneck till another thing's function become bottleneck. (Here Speaker , Amplifier Final stage transistor etc.). If you can check the amplifier recomendation power supply from Datasheet, you should give 500mA 12 volt power supply for faithfull amplification  with a certain speaker impedence value.

Here, we can simulate like
Speaker like BL Motor
Amplifier with ESC (without cut out protection)
Power supply as Battery.

Now if you select low mAH & C combined capacity battery, your motor cannot give that thrust like puffed cell.

That's it.

I have tried to explain as simple as I can.

And, HISS, HUM, NOISE, all comes when faithful amplification wont occur.

Quote from: KALYANPRODHAN on June 13, 2012, 10:22:44 AM
And, HISS, HUM, NOISE, all comes when faithful amplification wont occur.

Kolyanda ! thanks ! it was as clear as the crystal, certain doubts that crop up is, how is it done digitally and wont it be better because you will be able to pick out specific frequency, enhance it, change it, delay it to suit the room and speaker location so that you get extremely purified sound like sushil sir says. and all the HUM and NOISE that you hear is your self created (Presumably influenced by this pure music)

Firstly, making analog to digital by sampling in sampling rate and kbps value

(each sample bit length X no of sample/second = kilobit/second )
Now processing the digital data with Digital Signal Processor determines the required output.

The processing is simple. Just stores the data with shift register, Multiply that value with a particular multiplication factor that defines the required processing and sumup the value to get output. You can read more in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_filter

And finally digital data converted to analog output and send to speaker.

that is , well thought out and most eloquently put, post of yours , ever :thumbsup:

Hi, prop..

In my openion, to listen a good song, imagnation is a factor also in my personal openion.
And for this, a song of kishoreKumar (for Ex. Cholo Jai Chole Jai) played even in the worst quality amplifier gives joy just for imagination and plays the original song with the good quality, in rhythm inside our mind, and that changes the states of our mind too.

Listen by clicking (http://www.in.com/music/track/bengali-vol1-songs/chalo-jai-chole-jai-396571.html) No need to be religious or to know particular language.

Thanks