Even I didn't say Each and every Hk plane is a crap.

"Even I"

No one said you said so.  But equating one crash incident (which could happen due to a plethora of reasons, which you very well know, including the plane being crap), is no reason to argue against someone's value for money conclusion of another plane from the same source.

The bigger issue is that now it is becoming a matter of credibility with these far fetched examples to refute anything related to HobbyKing (or any other store for that matter).  People can see through many of these arguments, as just "I hate this store, and I will say almost anything against them, even if they are doing a pretty good job of taking peoples money and providing them with their money's worth of goods most of the time, albeit at less than stellar service". Being totally honest with you, that is how I see it.

I was only trying to point out another plane from HK that I saw was working well... the immediate reaction was a comparison to something that was distinctly different.

I am sure the audience can make an informed decision based on this thread and others on whether to deal with this store, or just leave it alone to rot !

PS: People are building Twincopters, Quads, Tricopters etc, just because they have become so much affordable. Show me Tower doing the same, before we have more of this discussion.  We just need to say it as it is... good when you see/experience good, and bad when you see/experience bad.  One should not sway the other.

Got better things to do for the next few hours...

value for money , for example
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/yak-54-3d-epp-profile-review-and-flying/msg90100/#new

Quote from: anwar on February 14, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
Wow ! What an apples to oranges comparison just because "I hate anything Hobbyking"

Hate HK ? May be 'Not Paid by HK' ... else I would have not put this thread all together.  Please read from top again if it sounds Negative, if not 'Balanced' what I intended to.
I dont see a rationale in importing a plane from HK, as HK price + Shipping + Risk in damage doesn't worth it, if you can find similar planes at LHS.

You import models which you don't get in India (particularly Mfg like GP/PA/Phoenix/SAB). But the ones now sold by LHS already(AXN/Hawk by Sujju, MPX/ESM products by RCD) doesn't make sense to import 'similar' planes when you can get them locally. I beg emphasize that both RCB, RCD, Payless etc are selling at least the planes at prices you cannot match by ordering yourself from HK or other western shops.

Apple to Apple. I was comparing one the 'Lines' of the type of plane. Both are Profile, both are Katana (or close if mistaken)and both have similar WS. I vouched for performance, which I bet the Balsa one would give more, instead of foamie being 'Crash Resistance'. Furthermore, a compareable plane, when in Balsa is always considered costlier than 'Foam'. Thats my point of VFM. May be I was talking about Steve B's Apple and you Newton's. But both are indeed Apple

Not supporting Akshay merely because I fly with him, there is a 'SEA' of difference in the build quality and material of Foamie planes made by more renowned OEM (AXN/Bixelr/Sky Hawk) than ones manufacturing only for HK. No doubt most (and I mean 60%) of HK Foamies rot as 'Dead stock' after introduction and hardly go in replenishment. HK then give them as Freebies, charging as much as $90 on shipping. And NO! they are not as worthwhile as stock clearance sale of Levis/Benetton/Woodland.

My advisory for people would be to keep away from buying 'Just Any' Foamie from HK/Ebay/Other stores unless you get a good review. I am telling you from a recent HK foamie crash last Sunday, which showed that the material used in such foamies are not to the quality you see in AXN/Bixeler. They are more like Styrofoam/thermocol than EPO/Elapore, even when HK claim all to be EPO.

Quote from: ujjwaana on February 14, 2012, 06:11:29 PM
...doesn't worth it, if you can find similar planes at LHS.

The whole point is that there seems to be no such plane in LHSes... and the argument was just to shoot down a decently performing plane, only because it is from HK.

And my only point was to point out another plane from the many many models that can confuse people about what is good at HobbyKing... because I see it routinely with my own eyes.  Gusty seems to have a similar experience.

And it is clear that the comparison is not apples to apples, no matter whatever spin you have thrown on it. A full CF frame profile plane, a balsa profile model and foam profile model are "similar" in that they are "profile" and "airplanes".  But I am sure you will agree that the "similarity" ends there.

+1 Ujjwal
i second ujjwals view in terms of cost by LHS! there are many examples
Even our LHS people know what to import ,which one to not!
i have taken a 4 models from RCD  all are well built! and costs are extremely cheap compare to importing from HK and others ! if any thing special and rare ,not available with LHS Sanjeev sir itself guides me through HK or other online shops!

We need to highlight good value offers for all LHSes, no doubt.  But when I tried to point people who buy from HobbyKing towards a model that was performing absolutely well, the response was not in terms of "that may be a good, but offers from LHS like this are also great or greater".  That is language/attitude we all can understand. Instead, the language is "no that is not good value (because it is HK?)... here, compare with this" and the example is not similar in terms intended use.

In short, it seems to be vandetta coming out, not the best interests of people who want to buy new planes. Honestly, it would be best to see such models in local stores... until that happens, we need to learn to live with goodness being pointed out, regardless of where the store is, and what store it is !

Quite simply, where did Gusty buy that model from... and amongst all the models he has gone through, how many have got such an endorsement/feedback from him ?

Glad to hear people like Sanjeev (of RCD) go beyond "my store" attitude in the interests of the RC community.  I am sure such deeds will be amply rewarded in due course.

I was not conclusive nor definitive in my postings. "I am not aware" , "I doubt" are the words used in my post, that clearly shows my opinion not conclusive fact. And I felt on a "Open Minded" forum I can at least express my thoughts.

This thread is all about moulded foamies not for profile foamies, so I was thinking it was quite obvious references on my posts.  

We all know about hassles involved in importing a plane, and when plane crashes on it's maiden due to bad build, how one can feel, I need not tell.  I think that's why Ujjwal has pointed that he want to wait for reviews before thinking of buying the plane from HK. And as a consumer Ujjwal has pointed that when you can buy a profile balsa plane from LHS why to go for a import, it's not a comparison, IMO.
OK there are some planes which HK sells are great like AXN Floater which shows in it's popularity.  but again Axn is sold by a LHS here in Bangalore now days.

Quote from: Akshayb on February 14, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
This thread is all about moulded foamies not for profile foamies, so I was thinking it was quite obvious references on my posts. 

Please... we all can remember posts that are in the previous page.  This thread was about a particular model, until you posted reply #15. At that point, it became a discussion about how "foamies from HK are bad except AXN".  And the case you pointed out turned out to be a balsa Cub !  So much for "moulded foamies only" discussion.

Quote from: Akshayb on February 14, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
And as a consumer Ujjwal has pointed that when you can buy a profile balsa plane from LHS why to go for a import, it's not a comparison, IMO.

That is a unique take on reply # 18.  If that is not a "comparison", then I wonder what in the world would one be ! May be re-reading that post will help.

Oh oh oh so that's the matter,

In future care would be taken to post the things which mods of the fora likes

As Ujjwaana has pointed couple of days earlier "to discuss such things places are becoming scarce"

Oh boy   That was not even a response ! I am glad you finally got it.

My only guilt is that I pointed out one more model from HK which seems to be working well. But it was turned into another "nothing HK does is fair/right", because "I" had a bad experience with them. I am sure people can see through this. 

I hope more people try these thick EPO/EPP fuse profile planes, they are good for training and aerobatic/3D flights. Most importantly, I hope local stores start carrying them, as Ujjwal probably originally intended.  Balsa models are cool and everything, but after 1 (or 2) training crashes, all the "value for money" sort of evaporates into thin air.  They may be good for senior folks who do near perfect flying... for the rest of us, these foam planes are very good choices so that we can feel free to improve our training without having to sweat a lot and do balsa+monocote surgery all the time !

I hope these type of planes become even more popular than the AXN, regardless of where people buy these from !

Posted by: anwar "Balsa models are cool and everything, but after 1 (or 2) training crashes, all the "value for money" sort of evaporates into thin air.  They may be good for senior folks who do near perfect flying... for the rest of us, these foam planes are very good choices so that we can feel free to improve our training without having to sweat a lot and do balsa+monocote surgery all the time ! "

Well said Anwar +1

Quote from: divay99 on February 15, 2012, 12:06:43 AM
Well said Anwar +1

Nice audiance !! Isn't it !! and all the traffic!!

Divay
What you usually pay more for ? Foamie or a Balsa plane ? Just forget the fact what is better for whom ?
Any discussion soon turns into "who is saying", "instead what is he saying"...

If people dont get it, read the short story "India Again" by EM Foster

I think it is time.... or was that long overdue...

ujjwaana dada.. with all due respects .... i liked what anwar said in terms of not wasting money on balsa planes during the course of learning ... foamie's are undoubtedly a great money and time saving option for beginners

As far as the "India Again" story is concerned all I can say is that you are Preaching to the choir ....

Quote from: ujjwaana on February 15, 2012, 03:00:37 AM
Any discussion soon turns into...

... no matter what... anything HobbyKing does is wrong, others cannot mention any HobbyKing products that seems to work reasonably well... and finally, except 2 or 3 people, everybody else are blind followers who are getting paid to speak for them ("fan boys").

What has balsa planes costing more than foam have anything to do with this discussion, when they don't even serve the same target audience, have distinctly different performance and durability characteristics ? For the same reasons, why are these even being compared ?

if we leave out HK out of this discussion and see a product for it worth things will fall in place, HK IMHO is a retail outlet, though they claim to, but , i dont think Mr hands is into production. having said that, if we look at their products. some FGF i had of their major products include (a) Bixler (b) Floater (c) YAK Foamie (d) YAK Composite (d) 2.6 m composite Glider (e) Bluebird servos (f) High torque Turnigy Servos (g) Tgy MG 16 Gms (h) HXT 9 gms (i) Orange (except for the fact it is binding to sandy'd tx  ) Corona Frsky Rx.etc These major prodcuts were real value for money (not to mention some motors and other accessories).

Absolutely no doubt they lie about thier shipping and delay so much to ship, backorder gimmick is bull crap, after sale support and customer service is a farse. then again people go back basically for the rates they sell thier products at. It is like i once bought a Handycam at less than 1/2 the price, with no warranty, someone told me why did i do that, what if anything goes wrong, i said to him, at less than 1/2 the price i have full replacement warranty worth money with me, not tied down for one/ two years alone. HK products are such, some products are less than 1/2 the price, Take it or leave it.

The original (First) post of Johny to me appeared to be praising the product he just wanted someone who has money and  wants to experiment and put up their view before putting his money, that, i think is fair

How many of you guys can honestly say you have no copies in your home or car. No copied CD, DVD, Software or moviesn or music. No audio cassettes with pirate3d music. No pirated flight sims. Not one thing copied?