I decided to maiden my stock easy star. The weather at Pancard Clubs, Baner, Pune was clear but windy. I was hoping to find some experienced flyers but there was no one there, so I decided to give it a go. Obviously the results were not so good. Despite of several attempts I was not able to get the plane flying. Here is the video:

I tried to correct the CG after every attempt.

The damage:
Tail boom cracked.
Motor mount separated from fuse.
Nose cracked at two places and bent.

What do you think about it guys? Is this solely because of bad piloting or there are other contributing factors?
While returning home I found remains of someone else's easy star scattered on the field, a broken prop and some foam. Is this place a Bermuda triangle for easy stars  

In all the attempts, the plane is veering right. Were your ailerons centered?

I think it would be best to enlist the help of n experienced local modeller. The plane HAS to be set up correctly,in the first place. And you WILL need support, in many ways. Trial and error methods result, mostly, in error and that is quite a trial!

First of all Easy Star is a proven & quite a stable model, it's being flown across the globe. After seeing the video there are no symptoms of CG being wrong. I would like to ask a question, how long are you being flying RC models? For me it looks purely piloting inexperience & error(no offence meant). During every take off in video the plane has banked to right. So it likely a trimming problem or take off in strong left cross wind. Any ways these foamies are easily repairable. So better luck next time after repairs. You may like to visit Hadapsar flying club where you will find quite few experienced people who can help you out. They fly on saturdays.

@sushil_anand
No ailerons on this plane. However rudder and elevator were centered. I even tried counter trimming the rudder for right turn, but it still kept banking.


@majraj
I have very little experience in flying glow SPADs, but have more crashes than landing in my log. I agree it's mostly piloting error but the wind has its share too. But again it was my decision to fly in such conditions, so may be its all piloting error. I know there are some very experienced and helpful guys at hadapsar but it's too far for me as I don't have a car. I stay in baner so pancard is convenient.

Can someone meet me at pancard and help me out..

oh shit man 

Sometimes I wish if people never had feelings    I mean feelings strong enough to make them do sort of irrational things ! Taking the help of an experienced person was the right thing to do. 

Being an EasyStar, the repairs should be fairly easy, but it is heart breaking to see the model plough into the ground at high throttle.  Please do cut throttle once you know it is going to impact

Have you checked the movement of the controls to see if they are reversed ?  It is somewhat easy to get wrong for beginners (especially ailerons).

Quote from: anwar on September 06, 2010, 01:17:47 PM

Have you checked the movement of the controls to see if they are reversed ?  It is somewhat easy to get wrong for beginners (especially ailerons).

+1 Anwar. If you are over using the Rudder (and worse in the wrong direction, as it exponentially increases the effect due to continuation). In such over use, the plane's tendency is to nose down and continue bank in one direction(the direction onset due wind/imbalance). Please check the proper throws and restrict to what Easy star flyers would have suggested on forum - usually 70% is max what I heard people use.

Some more after thoughts:

1. Though people swear by Multiplex brand, the wings might still be unbalanced - one wing heavier than the other. Hold the model with the nose and the tail and see if the plane is perfectly balanced in the Roll axis. If not, you can use a coin to balance the wing. use some tape and start from the wing root (the fuse and) and slowly move toward tip to see if the coin balances the roll axis. When found, use epoxy and tape to permanently fix the coin. If it doesn't till the wing end, use a heavier coin.

2. Check if you put the motor correctly. slight 2-3 degree angle may change the thrust angle and case such string banking.

3. the First launch suggest a very steep launch angle (and thus plane correcting with nose down, exposing more wing surface to wind).

4. Wind. both the launches were almost in the same direction. It would be really stupid to launch into a 'Cross' wind. Always launch 'Head' on into the wind, making a Zero degree angle. You can get a wide ribbon from ladies cosmetic store and tie it on a stick/pole. This would help you to see the wind direction and not relying on the 'Feel' of the direction.

Ouch.. Thats a very nasty crash! Even I think the rudder may be reversed.. This way when he gives left rudder to compensate for tilt, it goes further right.. Also seems quite windy..

SunLikeStar
I have been flying my Easy Star for the last several months now every weekend. I have gone thru a number of learning curves with my Easy Star. Perhaps, if you care to look in www.rcgroups.com you will find a number of first time users problems and what they have done about it.
In my opinion the following is quite possible:

a. As per the popular websites, the stock rudder is barely powerful enough to control the plane. So, you may have to increase the area of the rudder for better response. There are well written blogs with photos on how to go about this correction. But if you are a Spadder, then probably you can use your favorite coroplast to increase the rudder area with a littel bit of cyno.
b. Could be you are not launching the plane dead against the wind. We here in Kovalam, Chennai usually have a lot of wind to tangle with and have always learnt to be vary of its direction.
c. With the Easy-Star, as soon as you launch the plane, there is always a tendency for the plane to come down. This is because, the axis of the motor shaft has a slight moment arm with the CG of the plane tending to turn the plane downwards on increasing throttle. One has to fight this tendecny by a little up elevator. Once the plane starts rising up in response, just allow the joystick to centre.
d. Also, check whether you have pushed the wing halves towards each other sufficiently so that they sit equally about the axis of the plane.
e. How have you fixed the batteries in the cockpit. Is it loose and therefore shifting after launch. Perhaps you have a lot of weight only on the right side of the plane
By sure to reply after the above checks and perhaps we can still make a Easy Star lover out of you yet!!!


Saju

Hi,

Sunlikestar welcome to pancard

We have been flying there since 1 and 1/2 year now and its a perfect place for easy star, I would say you were lucky your easy star didn't go over the mountain on the left side. Am afraid whatever happened was
because of bad piloting.   

Get your easy star this weekend and someone might be able to help you out with it..

cheers

atul g

@anwar
I wont label that irrational as although I am a beginner but I can still fly a plane, may be not always land in one piece .. but still.. and am I missing something, why does every one wants me to check the ailerons on an eaststar. In fact this is my first plane without ailerons.

Double checked triple checked after the first crash, controls are not reversed.

@ujjwaana
I took lots of time checking the wind direction before each launch and made sure the launch was in the wind. But I'll definitely check the roll axis and motor axis.

@mpsaju
Thanks for the suggestions man. The battery is fixed strong in the cockpit; I don't think it is the causing the problem. Will go and check rcgroups right now.

@atul_pg
Thanks, it's a good spot, but very windy. I'll be there this weekend also, may be i'll bring my SPAD as well. When do you fly? Saturday or Sunday, cause I was there on Sunday from like 11 to 12.30 but no one showed up.

Quote from: SunLikeStar on September 06, 2010, 02:46:39 PM
@anwar
I wont label that irrational as although I am a beginner but I can still fly a plane, may be not always land in one piece

I was only talking about beginners who "cannot wait for next weekend" out of sheer excitement, which I have seen many times not only on the forum, but also in real life.  In an extreme example, someone ended up with 10 stitches to his hands   Your comment about waiting for "experienced" fliers misled me to some extend.

If you have basic orientations, and know the basics of control surface movement verification, please do ignore my comment, we have to look at other factors.  It must be unique to this model/setup, as opposed to more of a "checklist" error ! 

Whatever the solution/fix is, please do post it here !

I hope practicing on simulator may help to learn / improve the basic skills (I learned the take off, but crash landing always! ). I heard from Ram G that, he was practicing on simulator for 3 months and his first maiden flight with AXN floter was  success.

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/axn-floater-clouds-fly-from-hobbycity/

Regards
Dileep

On close look at the hand launch at exactly 24 Sec. and freezing the frame, i notice that the tail wing is not exactly at right angled to the fuse....this may be the viewing angle error also...but still need to be checked....rest in my opinion this is not CG error, only some loose joint in the body....

Sandeep

  I Guess no beginner should fly alone.....I myself thought ...Ohhh! my first flight is going to be a piece of cake.....But look at the amount of crashes I have had!!!!!! Terrible!!!!Lucky not much damage done to my model or me!!!
The controls of a RC model I learned are very sensitive......And wind also does its huffing and puffing on the model taking it for a toss....We like to blame the wind,Always if we crash!!!!
We all would sure love to see that same Easy Star which crashed......having an affinity to curl to the right.......to fly straight!!!!! Please do post the video and let us know why she kept right turning!!!
  This is my first learning flight with a home built foam model build by my friend ....A geared speed 400 up front powered by an 8cell 1100mAh NiMh cell pack with 2 micro servos for Elevator and Rudder......Look at the amount of nose dives in the grass ,No damage done though and then a Happy flight for me...which kept me at the edge of my controls...I tried my best!!!Thanks to my friend for building this foam model for me!!

I hope its Ok to post here!

@sandeepm
You are right, its a problem with the tail. After close inspection i have found that the horizontal stab is fine but the rudder definitely has an angle.

The plane is all repaired now. Will try to correct the tail today.

If that's the only issue, your applying of controls in the opposite direction should have kept the plane in the air, right ?

Yes, thats what i was doing. After the first crash, i knew something was wrong and before the second launch i acted out what i'll do, like first i'll give some elevator then some left rudder. But still the plane kept banking right. Then i tried to counter trim the rudder.
Normally i would have corrected a banking plane like this by trimming the ailerons, but this was totally alien to me.   

@ Ujjwaana
"+1 Anwar. If you are over using the Rudder (and worse in the wrong direction, as it exponentially increases the effect due to continuation). In such over use, the plane's tendency is to nose down and continue bank in one direction(the direction onset due wind/imbalance)."

I have experimented the same in simulator. you are right 

Regards,
Dileep

Quote from: mpsaju on September 06, 2010, 02:08:08 PM
SunLikeStar
I have been flying my Easy Star for the last several months now every weekend. I have gone thru a number of learning curves with my Easy Star. Perhaps, if you care to look in www.rcgroups.com you will find a number of first time users problems and what they have done about it.

I have found people who have faced the same problem at rcgroups, a great guy has suggested this,
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5896308&postcount=1

If basically set up correctly, any experienced pilot would have been able to handle the "out of trim" condition, and correct it while flying. Really not necessary to "test glide" for this, and not at all feasible for heavier aircraft!

Hence my strong recommendation to ALL beginners to take the help/support of others for the initial flights. Less heartburn this way!

Trim is basically what any pilot (who is not an absolute beginner) would keep the sticks at to keep the plane flying level.   And if the aircraft is built carefully and the CG has been given due care, it will not be much.  If what we are seeing in the video is just trim issues, that would be really surprising. 

Quote from: sushil_anand on September 07, 2010, 01:45:04 PM
If basically set up correctly, any experienced pilot would have been able to handle the "out of trim" condition, and correct it while flying. Really not necessary to "test glide" for this, and not at all feasible for heavier aircraft!

Hence my strong recommendation to ALL beginners to take the help/support of others for the initial flights. Less heartburn this way!

but this is not a heavy plane, i strongly believe the test glide thing would have got me through. And there is not much heart burn any way with an easy star. After all that thrashing and bashing, it took me just 15 mins to get the plane all fixed up.

There is a great thread on easystar at rcgroups that all easystar fans should visit.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167272

Quote from: anwar on September 07, 2010, 10:09:44 AM
If that's the only issue, your applying of controls in the opposite direction should have kept the plane in the air, right ?

Anwar, in Easy star and other ARF's there are guides to make the rudder or elevator at a fixed position and not here & there. here. i am again confused what sunlikestar said "at and angled" . if this the case then what you said "applying controls in Opp direction should have kept the plane in the air" will not work. as at an angle and means bent, will do exactly what was happening in the video. yes if it is not bent but not fixed properly then yes, what you said should have worked

Ok guys, so it was not all piloting error and it was not the vertical stab.
This week end I had the plane ready to fly, all fixed up, vertical stab removed and re-glued. Did some test glides in the bushes but it kept banking to the right. Any ways I decided to give it a try and crashed the same way I did last week end. Then I fixed a coin under the left wing and the plane took off without any input. However the flight was a struggle as I the plane was nose heavy and I had an exponential on the elevator. I somehow managed to avoid the huge pancard club name boards. It was so windy that even on full throttle the plane kept drifting towards other side of the hill. But I managed to crash land it on my side of the hill. The plane was later recovered from the hill and flown till the Tx battery was drained out.
Thanks ujjwaana, for the pointer.