Hi Guys,

Just finished making the F22 Raptor out of Depron covered Thermocole (will add the pics later, after she is painted), reinorced with bamboo skewers.

Here are the specs:


Length     : 73 cms
Span      : 53 cms
Weight      : 85 gms (Airframe only) Tried to keep it under 60 gms, but the nose and   
               wing reinforcements pushed it up.

I need you guys to help me with the following information urgently and would be grateful if you all could suggest specific models of the components. Preferably things those are easily available from a trusted LHS.

(a)   What motor should I use?
(b)   What prop should I use?
(c)     I am planning a pusher config. Is that OK?
(d)   What ESC?
(e)   What Batteries?
(f)    Do I need to use an Elevon / V Tail mixer?

I will be using a 6 Ch Tx/Rx and I do not wish her to be a very slow flyer, which would be shaming the name Raptor! If I can't fly her then someone else, more experienced, will......

I want her maidened by the 24th, so get a move on guys - You've got a job to do!

Cheers and Warm Regards,

VC

Ashta here flies a similar sized F22. Contact him if he doesn't chime in here.

Thanks a ton for the info. Will knock him.

Cheers!

"Depron Covered Thermocole" this part I did not understand. If you are using depron then why use themocole. Is it for the fuselage or for the complete frame?

If you really need fast, it will be difficult for a newbie unless you put in lot of training in sim.

F22 Rapter can fly very well with just aileron and elevator. So min three channels are sufficient. However still if you want to use mixing then use elevon mixing only on the tail elevator in two parts. You may also use elevon on both aileron and tail elevator depending on your skill with setting up servo. V Tail not at all a big "No"

You may use following
Turborix 5000rpm/v D2730 RC 400g 3D Plane Brushless Motor or equivalent with 3030 prop.

Use DYS or any other company 2212/6  2200KV with 6040 prop.

Or Turborix 3800rpm/v D2627 RC 300 EP or equivalent with 3800KV with a 4545 prop.
All will require a 30 Amps ESC.
Use 1300 -1500 Mah 3s (3 Cell ) 11.1 V capacity 25C or higher as battery.
All electronic I had obtained from Mr Sai www.rcforallin.in don't know weather he still has stock.
Mount Motor on a sturdy mount at 2/3 from the leading tip with prop spinning in a slot cut not too away from CG approx at 1/3 from leading edge ( CG May required to be shifted by shifting the bty loc depending on flying characteristics) Since air frame is very light.

if you are using depron try this plan it is very good.

Once I post the photographs, it will be easier to understand. By Depron I meant, best quality BioFoam plates. From each plate I have been able to cut out a 9" X 9" square piece. These in turn have been joined and used, as additional reinforcements, wherever required. Especially the nose section. The nose has further been strengthened with the addition of 2mm Balsa sheets on either side.

Thanks a lot for posting the plans, though I think I already had them in my collection. It is the thought, of helping others, that counts.

"If you really need fast, it will be difficult for a newbie unless you put in lot of training in sim."

I want her to be fast, not lightning fast. I am NOT going to wait any longer and train on the SIM. I'm going ahead with it, come what may. Believe in my instincts and trust in God and fair winds. If she crashes, I'll just go ahead and build another one!

Thanks again, Colonel.

Man I love your spirit. You remind me of my early days. Quicker I use to crash, faster I used to be up with another one ready to fly with a vengeance. Some time later I came across FMS simulator.

On the second thought I used to wonder why I wasted all those models earlier.
Anyway all the best for your model build. Depron F-22 is a real beauty when it flys.

Please post photographs of the models before you attempt to fly. You know why.

I understand your pessimism and I have full faith in my optimism. Wilco Sir!:salute:

Hey VC sir,
This post of yours encourage my lazy self to post thread for the similar F-22 I am building. I would be privileged if you collaborate with me for the sundry experiences you get building it. This could benefit both of us.

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/build-thread-f-22-raptor-scratch/msg13964/#new
 

Sir,

Seeing the quality of your build, I am in no position to 'collaborate' with you! It looks to be far superior to mine. Just go ahead and do it. If by some outward chance, you hit a speed breaker and need clarifications on the build process, I would be delighted to be of service!

Please note what Col. Sundaram wrote -"Please post photographs of the models before you attempt to fly. You know why." I will, therefore, have to create an aesthetically good looking aircraft, whether she flies or not, is a different question altogether!

Cheers!

VC

dear vc,
i am ashta here. You can call me 9448073127.
my few observation w/o seeing the photo etc. is
1. 85 grams airframe wt? i feel this is very light and there fore may not be able to take heavy gears,
2. sitck to Blue wonder 1300 KV motor with 60X50 prop, 800 mah 3 cell, 20C.

Fly the model and get a hang of it in terms of orientation and handling at that speed.
3. Once you are comfortable you can go for 1700 KV blue wonder and get more speed.
4. Again if u need more speed you can go for 2212-06 and 6X4 prop and 1320mah battery though this i feel may be heavy for that airframe . I cant comment on this w/o seeing the reinforcem,ent that u have done.

all step by step
ashta

VC Sir! You are humbling me, as your are far more accomplished molder, honor would be mine to share setup data with different motors/prop setup.

The 'appearance' of a plane should not be much of an issue for a flyer as long his model flies well, which is the most important factor. I would strongly suggest you to post your photos for the benefit of the community so that people can learn from our pains ( I took very long to make these ugly cuts, I would share my learnings in my build thread for complete newbies). Please visit my thread and try the Sim for F-22 (Realflight). If you haven't tried a Elevon plane, its highly suggested to learn it on the Sim first.  The Rolls and Pitches are real crazy, and its very likely that your maiden starts with a high alpha. It would be good to learn to control your plane in such condition on SIM itself.

Go with the motor/Prop combo suggested by Ashta Sir. I have seen people going with similar specs as suggested by him on F-22s

Ashta Sir,
Hope you remember me as I had the honor of vising your huge hanger. Even I am making the same model, though at 70% scale, the finally cut airframe (5mm Biofoam only) before any pasting/support etc stands at 89g. Do you really think thats under weight ? I would be re-inforcing the structure with tape and usual CF rod across the wing span near the motor mount. wouldn't that be enough ? Kindly suggest other form of re-enforcements ideas if you can enumerate. I was following your mantra of 'Keep it light' and planning to put 500-800mAh Lipo under 50g mark and keep the overall AUW under 250g. Your early guidance would help us both.

Regards-

Quote from: VC on February 14, 2010, 06:36:55 PM
By Depron I meant, best quality BioFoam plates. From each plate I have been able to cut out a 9" X 9" square piece. These in turn have been joined and used, as additional reinforcements, wherever required. Especially the nose section.

Dear VC

I agree with Mr Astha's assessment on wt of the model. The combination of power systems, which I gave you were all very powerful combination for strong reinforced airframes made using foam reinforced with carbon fibre, film, fibreglass weave or carbon reinforced depron 5-6 mm thick. Unlike Mr Ujjwana who is using 5mm depron reinforced with tape (I hope fibre tape) and carbon fibre rod across wing span you are using thermocole reinforced using 2mm bio foam and bamboo sticks.

I thing you should adopt Mr Astha's line of approach for electronics

Friends,

At the very outset, Ashta, Sandy and Ujjwaana, Thanks a ton. I mean this from the bottom curves of my elevons! Ujjwaana, please stop calling me 'VC Sir', please refrain from referring me by that name, it reminds me of my professional life. That aspect, normally, ends at sunset!

Okay, here's what I have done. I have ordered some stuff from Rcforallin. Details as follows:

1. RCFORALL SERVO [9gm] SO206 X 2 pcs
2. MASTER AIRSCREW PROPELLER 6*4[pusher] X 1pc
3. RCFORALL BRUSHLESS -ESC-18A X 1pc
4. RCFORALL BRUSHLESS MOTOR 2805/1400KV X 1 pc

Now you Champions tell me, have I ordered the right stuff or not?
Ashta, I took your advice and am trying to increase the Airframe weight to 100 grams by using strategic reinforcements, without affecting the centre of gravity (as far as practicable).

I would be grateful if you guys could OK the deal, as the die has been cast and the payment has been made. Of course, Mr. Sai, being the owner / a forum member, would be understand my predicament - however, this particular deal being moderated by Ebay, cannot be altered / amended now.

What do you say Gentlemen, have I asked for the right stuff?

Cheers!

Keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed while waiting for your comments!

VC

"as your are far more accomplished molder, honor would be mine to share setup data with different motors/prop setup.

The 'appearance' of a plane should not be much of an issue for a flyer as long his model flies well, which is the most important factor."

Ujjwaana, my friend, therein lies the problem! My 30+ years of plastic kit/static modelling has taught me that scale and details are everything. Whether the bird flies or not is secondary. She must LOOK good, because when she flies, no one can see the cello tape hinges!

I am trying to break away from that mindset and enter a new world of flight. Be patient with me. When you consider - Learn, Re Learn and Unlearn - the latter (Unlearn) is the most dfificult. Sometines it takes you to a paradigm shift that you may not be comfortable with!!!

Cheers!

VC

2. MASTER AIRSCREW PROPELLER 6*4[pusher] X 1pc
3. RCFORALL BRUSHLESS -ESC-18A X 1pc
4. RCFORALL BRUSHLESS MOTOR 2805/1400KV X 1 pc

if you are using above combination it will be surely be a gentle flight. please use 800-1300mah 3s 11.1 V 15-20C Lipo. However do not increase the airframe wt further, as the electronics and control it self will total to about 100gms plus. please keep the air frame wt to about 250 gms max.

Wilco Sir!

dear vc,
let me share my experience. I had made both 24 inch and 18.5 inch F22s. 18.5 inch F22 is one of the best planes i have found, in terms of stability and speed.
My f22 18.5 inch is
C20 motor with 50x43 prop
12 amp esc
600mah 3cll
R4p receiver
9 grams servo x2
AUW with battery is 234 grams. I have no reinforcemenmt done on this model

My F22 24 inch was 300 grams.

The f22 18.5 inch draws about 8amps wot. thats comfortable for a 600maH/20C. I felt that this is a good balance wrt the weight and the power.

Few photos and a video is attached.
Nice talking to u today VC.
A suitable battery for ur F22 will be
http://cgi.ebay.in/RCFORALL-LIPO-BATTERY-11-1V-1000mAH-3S-15C_W0QQitemZ110490964701QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_203?hash=item19b9c652dd
or
http://indianhobbies.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_76&products_id=240
Hyperion is supposed to be a much better battery.

As discuused pl do make use of your Glider skills and test glide your madel several times and ensure before taking the actula flight.
my best wishes to you,
Took this video last month. I have flown this several times and has repaired it a lot. still it flies reasonable well even now.

best regards
ashta

Ashta Sir,

Thank you for your time and valuable suggestions both for the Raptor and the Mugi Evo. I am already searching for the parts. Let me see if forum members can help out.

Warm Regards,

VC

Mr Astha that is one cool flying done there with the F-22, expecially the low ground pass. nice flying and nice video.

Was the video taken with famous Cap Camera of your? Please share some details regarding the Cap Camera.

We all would love to make one for us since we all are into taking video of our flights.   

dear sundaramvelar,
thanks. yes most of my videos are taken thru my cap camera. very crude but very effective. You will see the view of the plane at the start and also the Xmitter antenna.
attached are the photos, self expalining

ashta

Fortunately, seniors have already made the kind of plane I am building as my first, so we beginners may seek help.

Ashta Sir,
I am in the mid of building a F-22 of the similar scale and plan of your 18" one. If you get time, could you give some more closeup pics of:
1. Motor mount. I have made a Semi-firewall one, but that I guess is a over kill.
2. How and where you have put the Battery
3. Where is the CG

The Servos in the 18" pic seems to be much towards the front, than in the original design I am following, where the Servos are just behind the Props. Is that to bring the CG to the front ?

- Thanks and Regards

Quote from: Ashta on February 16, 2010, 02:57:11 PM
videos are taken thru my cap camera. very crude but very effective.

That is a neat, simple and effective design. Thanks Mr Astha. I am getting myself to fabricate one for self rightaway.

dear ujwanna,
i will take some photos and post. More apt will be pl do drop in to my house. i may be able to share a lot more.
best regards
ashta

Quote from: ujjwaana on February 16, 2010, 03:31:32 PM
Fortunately, seniors have already made the kind of plane I am building as my first, so we beginners may seek help.

Ashta Sir,
I am in the mid of building a F-22 of the similar scale and plan of your 18" one. If you get time, could you give some more closeup pics of:
1. Motor mount. I have made a Semi-firewall one, but that I guess is a over kill.
2. How and where you have put the Battery
3. Where is the CG

The Servos in the 18" pic seems to be much towards the front, than in the original design I am following, where the Servos are just behind the Props. Is that to bring the CG to the front ?

- Thanks and Regards

Hello,

Will it be better to mount the motor above the fuselage or should I cut a groove and mount it flush with the body - by extending the mid section of the Prop aperture to make it look like a T? What are the advantages and disadvantages in either case? How does it affect the handling of this aircraft?

Also, in either case, can someone please advise how to make the mounting?

Thanks and regards,

VC