Dear Mr. Anwar, I have managed to sell two of my helis after ur advice regarding the discount.thank you, i will be contributing some amount to RCINDIA in a few days time to express my gratitude. thank you. am posting the rates for the remaining helis.

come on u rc heli lovers only 4 left in stock now,grab the oppurtunity rush ur entries : ) . I have reduced the rates further. The new rates are as listed below, call/sms me 9434010220 or email me:  
 
1. E-sky Robbins- Rs. 4700
2. E sky Comanche- Rs. 4180
3. E sky lama V- Rs. 5000
4. Art tech EC-135- Rs. 6100
        

 More discounts on used begineers RC helis


1. E-sky Robbins- Rs. 4800       NEW PRICE (Rs.4200)
2. E sky Comanche- Rs. 4280   NEW PRICE (Rs.3900)
3. E sky lama V- Rs. 5040        NEW PRICE (Rs.4700)
4. Art tech EC-135- Rs. 6400    NEW PRICE (Rs.6000)

More Discounts on the Comanche and the robins

1. E-sky Robbins- Rs. 4800       NEW PRICE (Rs.4000)
2. E sky Comanche- Rs. 4280   NEW PRICE (Rs.3600)
3. E sky lama V- Rs. 5040        NEW PRICE (Rs.4700)
4. Art tech EC-135- Rs. 6400    NEW PRICE (Rs.6000)

WHAT ARE U WAITING FOR RUSH UR MAILS OR SMS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
  9679260688 or 9434010220

art tech price reduced to 5800

More Discounts

1. E-sky Robbins- Rs. 3800       
2. E sky Comanche- Rs. 3300
3. E sky lama V- Rs. 4200
4. Art tech EC-135- Rs. 5200     

WHAT ARE U WAITING FOR RUSH UR MAILS OR SMS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
  9679260688 or 9434010220

what are u waiting for you rc begineers,calll me or sms,email me .Now only three helis left

1. E-sky Robbins- Rs. 3800       
2. E sky lama V- Rs. 4200
3. Art tech EC-135- Rs. 5200     

RUSH UR MAILS OR SMS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
  9679260688 or 9434010220 rates are negotiable

hi,

pls confirm the comannche dispatch details.

i have already sent an sms to your phone number with docket details.warm regards

hi Mr Prem,

This is to inform you that second helicopter which was send as a compensation to me is also not in working condition.
So i am now having 2 helicopters which dont fly
1. COLCO purchased at Rs 2800 : 2 channels dont work, swash plate is cracked,
So i put my own colco 4 controller but the sensitivity is not matching and heli does not fly.
2. Comanche purchased at Rs 1200 : One servo is not working, Upper head one link is missing also the head has been super glued, which makes it also not able to fly. Also the charger is defective

Expected Repair cost of heli
Colco - Controller - Rs 1500
Comanche - Servo - Rs 400  + Upper head - Rs 600 + Charger - Rs 500

As i wanted to gift this to new bee into this hobby and the charm has already been spoiled due to some unexplained reasons.

Now you have stopped lifting my phone.

Thanks for spoiling the spirit of this hobby.

Wow    Looks like something that should be avoided at all cost has happened 

I request all sellers to be as clear as possible about the condition of any items they put up for sale.  Please mention if the item has crashed, and any fixes or part replacements done. In the spirit of the hobby, this information should be voluntarily disclosed.

We only have a small group of like minded people in this hobby, let us watch out for the well being of one another ! 

  dear mr anwar, how could you just hold me guilty just by hearing one side of the story. I sold him a perfectly good working colco heli, after he receives the item he tells me servos are not working and the heli does not even take off the ground,which is completely false as i had flown it a day before dispatching it just to say goodbye, even then he calls and tell me as heli was not working he would like to take comanche as a replacement. I told him to return my heli and i would refund his money and i would pay for shipping too. then he told me that returning d heli would be problem for him. He offered to buy comanche for 500 as he had initially bought the heli to gift it to his nephew. Thinking he was genuine good guy i gave him com  at just 800,he calls again and says that heli is defeated too and had crashed, all are false allegations as both my helis were in good flying condition,u can ask my other buyers.after that if started calling me 20 times a day saying i should send my other lama6 without any cost as compensation-naturally i said no but he kept on calling me every 20 to 30 mins for 3 to 4 days, obviously i started getting bugged and stopped answering his calls about sending my other heli for free. What would u have done mr anwar,sorry for the long explanation but i had to give u the truth.warm regards

Quote from: premvijay on October 14, 2009, 10:34:21 PM
dear mr anwar, how could you just hold me guilty just by hearing one side of the story.

For the simple reason that you failed to respond to him earlier publicly on the other forum.

Whatever I stated stands, that sellers need to clarify the condition of the item, as a common sense rule for transactions in the forum.  This is for the benefit of everyone. 

I understand my words do imply that as the seller, you were less than forthcoming, and it is based on the fact that I find it difficult to believe that some one would publicly claim two helis he received were both defective.  If this is part of a fraud scheme to get helis from you at a low price, the buyer would keep quiet after receiving two helis in perfect condition for a really throw away price (instead of making a public cry about it, and risking exposure of himself).  In short, I feel whatever I posted was based on simple logic (although I can still be wrong, but chances for the same still seem remote to me). I do not want to play judge at all (as "I" am insignificant), but I did think through before stating what I stated, and it was not a knee jerk reaction to a one sided story.

Now this is a matter of your word against his word, which is a game no one wishes to play.  It does not matter much who is right; as a whole, the spirit of the hobby is dented

i GUESS i will go with the no comments frquently used proverb, but the guy still is emailing me and asking me to give my lama VI for free but he will pay the shiping charges, can u believe the nerve of this person. 

Anwar ,
I think it should be clear that the forum is not a place for the buyer and seller to settle differences in public. The deal is purely between the two of them.
Such misconceptions are bound to arise in the case of 2nd hand stuff . The buyer of second hand stuff knows the risk of this when he buys , he went into  the deal only because of the perceived value knowing all the pros and cons of such a deal  so he has no right to cry foul on the forum. .

MUDSLINGING AT ANY FORUM MEMBER DUE TO A SOUR DEAL IN PUBLIC IS IN VERY VERY BAD TASTE AND CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THE INTENTION OF HANGING TOUGH  TO USE THE FORUM  TO SETTLE DIFFERENCES , THIS SHOULD NOT BE ENCOURAGED AT ANY COST

My suggestion in this case is please make it clear as an additional point  pertaining to sale of used products on the forum is that once a sale is effected  neither the buyer or the seller shall  settle their differences if any outside the forum and the forum shall in no case be used to settle differences .

The forum and its members are not a party to a bipartite deal  and  get no benefit if things go right hence  forum space is not to be wasted if things go wrong.

Sai

PS : ANWAR : My sincere advice to you is in future please do not comment in any way on such matters  as forget about knowing both sides we don't even need to know anything on this matter and  some bipartite difference in no way affects this hobby.

Airing your personal opinion on such matters : avoidable 
I don't see any reason for  us  to be involved in a  matter between these 2 guys and neither does this spoil the spirit of the hobby in any way it is a private deal gone sour which is of no concern to any of us.
I don't  see why HANGING TOUGH has to generalize it  and drag the spirit of this great hobby at all  .  

It is not that simple Sai.  Not getting involved makes sense for you, it did not for me.  I am not sure what good NOT airing personal opinion on the matter would bring, other than a bad status-quo.  Since it is the first such incident, we are better off talking about it, and see if we can setup up some precedents and best practices.

You are right from your vantage point, it is better that you should not get involved. Your post is accusing the buyer of "mud-slinging", which is the same type of response as mine, while it is quite possible that he felt cheated and wanted to prevent the same in the future.  Remember that the items were listed as "hardly used".

As such transactions happen on this forum, we have to make it clear that utmost sincerity is expected in such matters from all sides. 

And I do not agree that after sale issues should not be discussed on the forum.  We created the feedback system to avoid any bad apples, as the user base grows. It does affect the hobby, as I have had two beginners PM me asking if it is safe to buy second hand stuff from the "For Sale" items here. A comfort factor has to be established. While we are not sure 100% what happened in this case, it is NOT OK to list items as "hardly used" and then the item is found to be in totally unusable state.

The models we use are easily damaged in crashes (whether it happened before or after the sale transaction), in any case, honesty is expected.

The initial lack of response from Prem in this case is not the way to handle such disputes; and that prompted my response.  At the very least, I hope people acknowledge the issue raised, and should mention that "this discussion be better done offline", if the differences are not quickly resolvable.  If that is achieved in the future, then airing my personal opinion has served its purpose.

None of this is personal, as I do not know either. I do appreciate the way Prem handled by comments so far.  But I do see the need for people to be forthright about problems (and questions/concerns raised by others), and make it public (even if the resolution is done offline). 

Prem -

Please consider airing your voice here too...(unless you are OK with your name being continuously maligned).  You were logging in, per your profile there.

http://www.indiarc.com/forum/index.php?topic=2722.0

Let them rate each other negative on the trader rating that would serve our purpose .

Anwar ,
Quote
If this is part of a fraud scheme to get helis from you at a low price, the buyer would keep quiet after receiving two helis in perfect condition for a really throw away price (instead of making a public cry about it, and risking exposure of himself)

Unquote

My opinion:
I got 2 helis for a price slightly better than I bargained for by just telling the seller the 1st one was damaged  WHY NOT THREE    may be a bit of pressure thru the forum could achieve what I want   .

So get the forum involved  and apply pressure by raking up the sentiments members for the hobby by talking of spirit of hobby etc

Could this not be a scenario  


In fact if Prem was offering me a refund I would rather take it having got 2 broken helis than take the risk of a 3rd one  and pay courier for it

I am not saying it is but all I am saying is without knowing the picture it is not fair for us to get into the argument  .

I know Rajesh ( rajsigma ) got  a heli from Prem and did not have a problem  I think he has said so in India RC as well.

Further The post from hanging tough was at 7 PM and  you posted at 8 pm and Prem replied at 10.30 pm on the same day.

Further your post at 8 PM ( 1 hour after report )indirectly implies the seller is at fault  further in the later post you have said your post was because Prem did not respond , the fact is he responded within 3.5 hours after the first post . People are not continuously on line and even if he was logged in he would need time to react but you shot of within 1 hour itself  

These are facts Anwar for all to see. I don't think the forum nor its members should be used like this to pressure other members it will set a very bad precedence .

You can choose to run the forum the way you want , but as matured individuals i felt it better to warn you. how you take it is up to you

Sai

Quote from: rcforall on October 15, 2009, 11:18:47 AM
I am not saying it is but all I am saying is without knowing the picture it is not fair for us to get into the argument .

It is also possible that out of 5 helis, 2 were damaged...  but we do not know 

I was not getting into an argument, until you got involved I raised a general issue about sellers needing to be clear about the condition of posted models.  I also made it clear that Prem should have responded earlier, lest he confuses others and his name is maligned. 

Quote from: anwar on October 14, 2009, 11:01:07 PM
For the simple reason that you failed to respond to him earlier publicly on the other forum.

And the delay I am referring to is on the other forum, where the seller was logging on (even now shows last login Oct 11).  And it is a wider audience (at least for now).  So it looks like you are again missing the bigger picture here, and certainly not seeing all the facts.

I was as shocked as anyone to see this reported there, with no response.  Very uncharacteristic as compared to the earlier interaction from the members involved.

Sai - It is not that complicated at all.  Silence in the face of a public personal accusation is not to be taken lightly.  If one remains silent, that opens the doors for all sorts of speculations and conclusions.

"Maturity" is not "silence". If it were, there would not be an RC India.  Yes, there are places where further discussions do not add value, but this may not be one of those.

Anwar ,
As I have stated before this issue is of no concern to me but my only submission to you is in the long term interest of the forum don't allow the forum or yourself to be used by either side  .
If Prem was not answering on IRC so be it .
That makes me think all the more is RCI being used knowing the members and yourself to be more proactive that Sunil  .

May be that is why Hanging tough who reported this problem on 8/10 thought of coming here  after 6 days  because knowing you he knew you could be used to pressure PREM as IRC was not getting the desired results , despite him showing a preference for that forum by going there before he came here .

Anwar DON"T GET USED AND  DON"T LET THE FORUM BE USED .

THE PICTURE IS NOW VERY CLEAR TO ME , HENCE THIS IS THE LAST POST FROM ME ON THIS SUBJECT

Quote from: rcforall on October 15, 2009, 11:54:53 AM
If Prem was not answering on IRC so be it .
That makes me think all the more is RCI being used knowing the members and yourself to be more proactive that Sunil  .

May be that is why Hanging tough who reported this problem on 8/10 thought of coming here  after 6 days  because knowing you he knew you could be used to pressure PREM as IRC was not getting the desired results , despite him showing a preference for that forum by going there before he came here .

You have quite an imagination    Or is that what really happened ?   

Quote from: rcforall on October 15, 2009, 11:54:53 AM
Anwar DON"T GET USED AND  DON"T LET THE FORUM BE USED .

If you look at it from that perspective, you also got used (whether you realize it or not) !

 

i see lot of  but no proof by either party 

Anwar,
    Pls. put up a disclaimer that all transactions done via this forum and any advice given in this forum is the personal matter of those giving it or those engaging in such sales and that the forum takes no responsibility to any of these.

Else, there may be more dangerous stuff where we "advise" or "teach" newbies some things and those newbies try it out and land in danger or cause physical and fatal injury to themselves or others.

In many ways when a forum like this gets this much activity there need to be disclaimers and some level of rules (bad word??) to insure that the forum (and especially its purpose) is insulated from any legal issues. Else if any untoward event happens then in such cases ppl will point back to the forum and say that they were told to do so by ppl on the forum.

That will surely kill, bury and make this hobby history for all of us.