Quote from: izmile on September 07, 2009, 10:03:34 PM
Quite recently, I used the detergent cooking method discussed in many forums and it worked flawlessly. However, the shine of the engine is permenantly gone but it came out very clean. If at all anyone is trying this then I would recommend not to clean the piston and cylinder by this method.

Hi Ismail,

Can you please throw some light on the detergent cooking mehod.

Cheers!!!

The term "detergent cooking" is conined by myself... so feel free to name it the way you like. Now, here is the receipie..

First disassemble the engine like - carb, muffler, crank case with the shaft.. etc. But make sure you remove the cylinder and piston. If you can remove the bearings as well. Also, all rubber/silicone components shall be removed. You do not want to make any metallergical changes to these precesion components.

So, you would be left with the crank case, cylinder head, backplate, carb and muffler and other nuts and bots.. These are the components that are externally visible. Now, you need to mix water with detergent (Blue Surf powder is fine.. and that what I have used).  Keep it in a metal container.. normal kitchenware is fine. Sink the engine components in this detergent water and cook it on your stove until it boils.. Soon afterwards you will see the castor gunk forming a froth over the boiling detergent mix. Now, take a tooth brush and brush any other castor gunk between the engine fins etc.. You will notice that the engine will become spotlessly clean.. but it will loose its shine and will be come dull in colour. (May be because of the Surf powder that I used... may be Ariel or someother detergent will preserve the shine but I haven't tried it.. worth trying it out on a corner of a muffler)..

Once you are convienced that the engine is clean you can reassemble the entire thing and lubricate it with castor or what ever lubricant you have...
You can then add your favourite masala and season it... and serve it hot..

-Ismail

Thanks for the reciepe Ismail 

I believe we can add VANISH to remove the unwanted stains as well... he he he 

Will try your method and update you on the results...

BTW, i read that you can also use car coolant (Ethylene Glycol) concentrate to do the same... JUST ENSURE THAT THE COOLANT DOES NOT BOIL, or else your engine will loose its shine. If the coolant does not boil, it will remove the castor gum and your engine will nt loose the shine either... more or less you get almost a new engine... Never tried though... might give it a try next weekend.

Cheers!!!
Saurabh

Ok, here is what I am doing with my engines, I would appreciate if experts ( Capt and others ) could guide me on how better can i run/maintain my engines .

1. I am using a 79/21 mix of Methnol/Lube . For lube, I use 50% Klotz synthetic and 50% raw castor (after decantation and filtering ). I use raw castor, as I had heard that hte processed ones lack the lubrication properties.

2. After flying sessions, I take out the feeder fuel line, and start engine. Following that I put 10-15 drops of Singer machine oil and turn the engine a few times, then wrap the engine in cloth.

3. I use the same procedure for my 2 strokes and 4 strokes and have been doing this for 10 years. I still hand start engines, and mine usually start in 2-3 flips and run reliably even after a year of storage.

4. I seldom open engines. When i do, i clean with methanol. and while assembling use machine oil. Then run engine immediately following assembly.

5. I start my engines once every 6-12 months and follow the steps above .

Now, here are a few things I am concerned with:
1. Am I using the right fuel ? Is raw castor OK ? ( So far its worked out good for me ).
2. Would Singer machine oil corrode rubber components ? I use it liberally on my four stroke - Will it damage the rubber seals ?
3. 4 strokes are more prone to corrosion. What would be the best technique to preserve them ?   
4. When starting an engine, I start at idle, and let it run on idle for a minute or two before increasing throttle to full. I do this, as I think this would clear the engine of rust/deposits, and running on high speed might damage/scratch . However I am concerned that we need to have the engine get to operating temperature ASAP, and this idle running may be harmful.


Since my flying is limited, and I build more than fly, so maintaining my engines/planes is one my priorities . Would be good to hear, how can i improve here.
Thanks
Gaurav

Quote from: gauravag on October 11, 2009, 10:31:51 PM
Ok, here is what I am doing with my engines, I would appreciate if experts ( Capt and others ) could guide me on how better can i run/maintain my engines .
...
...
Since my flying is limited, and I build more than fly, so maintaining my engines/planes is one my priorities . Would be good to hear, how can i improve here.
Thanks
Gaurav

Waiting to hear back on the above from experienced people on the forum here..

kerosene does not mix with castor oil. Whenever i mix kerosene and castor (for making diesel fuel)  they remain as 2 immisible layers until ether is added. in fact the ether is there to act as a solvent for the other 2 liquids as well as to initiate combustion.
So cleaning castor gum with kerosene does not help.
The detergent method outlines by ismael is great.As he pointed out it permanently discolours the engine.
As for the cylinder and piston i clean them with an old toothbrush and shampoo. if there is a lot of stubborn carbon on the cylinder head/ piston top, i use toothpaste and an old tooth brush. the tooth paste works as a gentle abrasive.

Methanol is hygoscopic and  nitro gives of acid residues after it is burnt/ deteriorates. The combination eats up the bearings and corrodes them.
I have recently changed the bearing of a few engines here at chennai and i give them a thorough clean since they are already completely dismantled.
The A, B & C whch the engine is made of have not been corroded. the bearing are ussually rusted.
The new bearings - i buy them locally pay about Rs.140/- for a pair of japanese or FAG bearings- the chinese ones are cheaper - usually have sheilds on both sides. These are NOT rated for  high temperature use at 15,000 rpm.
i remove the sheild - rubber or metal from both sides of the rear bearing and the back side of the front bearing.
Just force it out with a small screw driver - that is how the shop guy did it for me the first time.
This ensures that enough lube from the fuel  enters the bearings. The bearing does have grease inside  but that is only for shipping and probably for low temp low rpm use.

The front sheild of the front bearing is not to be removed. it prevents sand and dust thrown up by the prop from entering the bearing.
I have no experience with the expesive ceramic bearings.

From my 2 cents of experience after seeing the 6-7 engines i have tinkered with - I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND BURNING OUT THE LAST REMNANTS OF FUEL AFTER DISCONNECTING THE FUEL TUBES.
AND AT LEAST 1-2 ML ( A GOOD SQIURT) OF oil - i use sewing machine oil  into the open carb. Flick the engine over a few times.

Also remove both fuel and muffler pressure tubes from the engine at the end of the day. Even if the tank is emptied thouth the clunk, there is always a little fuel left. and this can flow out of the pressure tube into the muffler and then the engine, when the plane is vertically nose down for transport/ storage.
If you imagine the way the pressure tube is set up in the tank , you will understand what i am getting at.

I have recently started using 5% nitro in my fuel ( because it is easily available) and even if i don't wipe my plane very thoroughly, i take care of the engine.
Avijit

Quote from: gauravag on October 11, 2009, 10:31:51 PM
Ok, here is what I am doing with my engines, I would appreciate if experts ( Capt and others ) could guide me on how better can i run/maintain my engines .
...
...
Since my flying is limited, and I build more than fly, so maintaining my engines/planes is one my priorities . Would be good to hear, how can i improve here.
Thanks
Gaurav

Capt, i was wondering if you could comment on my post above ? Was seeking answers to the questions i posted here would be wonderful if you could advise me on this.

Quote1. I am using a 79/21 mix of Methnol/Lube . For lube, I use 50% Klotz synthetic and 50% raw castor (after decantation and filtering ). I use raw castor, as I had heard that hte processed ones lack the lubrication properties.

2. After flying sessions, I take out the feeder fuel line, and start engine. Following that I put 10-15 drops of Singer machine oil and turn the engine a few times, then wrap the engine in cloth.

3. I use the same procedure for my 2 strokes and 4 strokes and have been doing this for 10 years. I still hand start engines, and mine usually start in 2-3 flips and run reliably even after a year of storage.

4. I seldom open engines. When i do, i clean with methanol. and while assembling use machine oil. Then run engine immediately following assembly.

5. I start my engines once every 6-12 months and follow the steps above .

1. Although 10% castor is fine, with a good synthetic like Klotz, you could easily go down to 5-6% castor + 15% synth, albeit at an added cost. You will find the engine running smoother and the residue easier to clean.

Quote1. Am I using the right fuel ? Is raw castor OK ? ( So far its worked out good for me ).
2. Would Singer machine oil corrode rubber components ? I use it liberally on my four stroke - Will it damage the rubber seals ?
3. 4 strokes are more prone to corrosion. What would be the best technique to preserve them ?   
4. When starting an engine, I start at idle, and let it run on idle for a minute or two before increasing throttle to full. I do this, as I think this would clear the engine of rust/deposits, and running on high speed might damage/scratch . However I am concerned that we need to have the engine get to operating temperature ASAP, and this idle running may be harmful.

1. Se 1. above.
2. No known problems with this oil. The "rubber" parts are usually synthetic - neoprene is common.
3. Not really. The parts that corrode on ANY engine are the steel components, like bearings. I suppose the gears would be the adiotonal points of concern.
4. With the temperatures normally encountered the engine would have warmed up within 30 seconds, at most.

3. I have also seen the various nuts in the engine gather rust faster than many other engine parts.  Especially if you fly anywhere closer to the sea.

Quote from: flyingboxcar on September 09, 2009, 11:27:47 AM
It would not take water out as it is not hygroscopic. What it would do is not allow water molecules to cling to surface of the engine components by forming a barrier film

Guys I was told that nitromethane left in the engine from unburnt fuel (being hygroscopic) turns into nitric acid without "after oil". This attacks the bearings which rust and hence ruin your engine. A spray or a few drops of any "after oil" keeps moisture and away. I will always add 3 to 4 drops into the engine and turn the prop a couple of times. Any synthetic oil does the job, we tend to use the special after run oil though. I have not delved that deep into WD 40's disadvantages and will admit have also sprayed it into the carb sometimes after flight before packing the model away.

While this is true for home brew (which is common in India) and some of the brands, other brands insist that "no after run oil be used" explicitly.  The brand we use commonly ("Cool Power" from "Morgan Fuel") states so on every can. These blends have rust inhibitors built in.

http://www.morganfuel.com/cp_faq.htm#4  (Marketing talk, yet valid !)

ENGINE STRIPPING;
Here are some scanned pages of a magazine that might help some one. You might not be able to read them properly here so save them in your PC first then print.
If you cannot see them properly, just send me your email address, I will email it directly to you.

These videos do a pretty good job of describing the process, including tips like heating the case to help with bearing removal.

http://www.rcindia.org/fuel-and-engines/nitro-engine-maintenance-videos/

BTW, great effort Deepak bhai ! 

ENGINE STARTING...

Gaurav,
I guess I missed this post, and thanks for relying on my reply. I do not know if this helps but here you go.

1. Your process is spot on. Run the engine dry after each days flying, add few drops of any oil to forma film (turn the engine over to distribute the oil) and disconnect the fule feed line from carb (for added precaution) and your engines would last real long.

2. Your fuel brew is fine as well, you can reduce the castor proportion a bit, but then extra oil will not hurt the engine, BTW I have always used off the shelf castor (either medical grade or what is availble at Nilgiris) and have no problems

3. More engines are damaged by constant fiddling than anything else. You are sure to strip a thread or two if you keep screwing and unscrewing  . Do not fix anything unless it is broken

4. Runing your engines is good, but the same can be acheived by just adding oil and turning over the parts, I do this for all my engines not in use every few months (I guess I am too lazy to take them out fix on bench and run each one of them).

5. The parts which are prone to rust are the steel ones, like bearings, crankshaft, throttle barrel, gearings in 4T etc, so make sure these are well oiled before layup and you are fine.

6. After oiling it is also suggested that you store the engines nose down so that the oil accumulates near the bearing. Have read this and makes sense but have never practiced as the limited shelf space dictates maximum utilization

7. After starting I just push the stick a few notches and let the engine run for about 30-40 seconds before removing the igniter as a standard practice, never had any problems, and yes I do start all my engines by hand (a chicken stick with the APC as I have cut myself up manytimes with these) if it is a MA or Indian prop just the fingers do the trick (Warning- Unless you know how to please do not try or try it at your risk and cost). The starter is for times when the engine is stibborn (which means there is something else wrong) or for others in the field to borrow        

8. I had never used nitro in my engines till about 3 years back and was running 80-20 or 75-25 mix on all engines, even now the nitro is for relaible idling and peace of mind than anything else and I generally use 5-7% on all my engines except the ones like MVVS which do not like nitro at all

Sorry to sound dumb, but wanted to know, What exactly is after run oil and which would be the oil to use?
Was going through some site (Don't remember) but on that forum evryone was against using WD 40 as an after run oil.
Waiting to hear from all the guys.
Doc

Hi Doc,
After run oil is a brand name of Model Technics mix of oils that is packaged in a small handy bottle. I am sure it is same as ;
Lube oil
3 in one oil
Any type of thin machine lubricting oil without rust removing chemicals that are found in WD 40 or similar rust protection sprays.
I always use it as we I haven flown my IC for over a month now and looking at the weather outside, I think I will only be flying IC next year now. Its just electric during winter.... cannot be bothered to load / unload all the gear in freezing conditions of Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb

Check out the below link;

http://www.modeltechnics.com/run-in/run-in.html   


http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=1770   

Regards
Dc

Had to laugh at the field yesterday; my Moki 135 had a couple of weeks ago gone "sick" during a flight and wouldn't start again. Took it back yesterday putting it down to a dud plug, but it still wouldn't start although it was showing faint sign of life.

Anwar was helping and his reply to my comment "if it doesn't start first or second flick" ..... was "Its gonna be a long day" lol   Classic!!

Anyhow decided to strip it down suspecting a bent peice of metal somewhere internally, and when I went to undo the cylinder head bolts I found they were not tight.  

Removed the head, cleaned some deposits off with scotchbrite pad, blew the carb out, refixed in the plane, fuelled up and bang - started first flick.

Now thats a new one for me, another one for the checklist!!

As a follow on, I stripped the tank and plumbing out as I had noticed when draining the tank there were a lot of bubbles. This turned out to be a small crack in the brass tube connecting the clunk tube to the fuel feed tube ie the peice that goes through the bung in the tank. This is about ten years old so it goes to show there is ongoing wear and tear that evertually will cause a breakdown and parts needs to be periodically checked. Sorry for stating the obvious!!

Surprising that the bolts can come lose after such a long period. One would think they would come out in the first few flights, or they would stay in place for EVER !

What is the main ingredient of WD-40 ?


Before  you read to the end, does anybody know what the main ingredient of WD-40  is? 

Don't lie and don't cheat. 

WD-40.  Who knew;

I  had a neighbor who bought a new pickup. 
I got up very early one  Sunday morning and saw that someone had spray painted red all around the  sides of this beige truck (for some unknown reason).  I went over,  woke him up, and told him the bad news. 
He was very upset and was  trying to figure out what to do.... Probably nothing until Monday morning,  since nothing was open.  Another neighbor came out and told him to  get his WD-40 and clean it off.  It removed the unwanted paint  beautifully and did not harm his paint job that was on the truck. 
 I'm impressed!  WD-40  who knew?  'Water Displacement #40'.
The product began from a search  for a rust preventative solvent and degreaser to protect missile  parts. 

WD-40 was created in 1953 by three technicians at the San  Diego Rocket Chemical Company.  Its name comes from the project that  was to find a 'water displacement' compound..  They were successful  with the fortieth formulation, thus WD-40.  The Convair Company  bought it in bulk to protect their atlas missile parts. Ken  East (one of the original founders) says there is nothing in WD-40 that  would hurt you...  When you read the 'shower door' part, try  it.  It's the first thing that has ever cleaned that spotty shower  door.  If yours is plastic, it works just as well as glass.   It's a miracle!  Then try it on your stove top ...  Viola!   It's now shinier than it's ever been.  You'll be amazed.   

                      WD-40  uses:

1.      Protects silver from tarnishing. 
  2.   Removes road tar and grime from cars. 
  3.   Cleans and lubricates guitar strings. 
  4.   Gives floors that 'just-waxed' sheen without making them  slippery. 
  5..   Keeps flies off cows. 
  6.   Restores and cleans chalkboards. 
  7.   Removes lipstick stains. 
  8..   Loosens stubborn zippers. 
  9.   Untangles jewelry chains. 
  10.   Removes stains from stainless steel sinks. 
  11.   Removes dirt and grime from the barbecue grill. 
  12.   Keeps ceramic/terra cotta garden pots from oxidizing. 
  13.   Removes tomato stains from clothing. 
  14.   Keeps glass shower doors free of water spots. 
  15.   Camouflages scratches in ceramic and marble floors. 
  16.   Keeps scissors working smoothly..
  17.   Lubricates noisy door hinges on vehicles and doors in homes. 
  18.   It removes black scuff marks from the kitchen floor!  Use WD-40 for  those nasty tar and scuff marks on flooring.  It doesn't seem to harm the finish and you   won't have to scrub nearly as hard to get them off.  Just remember to open some windows if you have a lot of  marks. 
  19.   Bug guts will eat away the finish on your car if not removed quickly!    Use WD-40! 
  20.   Gives a children's playground gym slide a shine for a super fast slide. 
  21.   Lubricates gear shift and mower deck lever for ease of handling on riding mowers... 
  22..   Rids kids rocking chairs and swings of squeaky noises. 
  23.   Lubricates tracks in sticking home windows and makes them easier to open.. 
  24.   Spraying an umbrella stem makes it easier to open and close. 
  25.   Restores and cleans padded leather dashboards in vehicles, as well as vinyl bumpers. 
  26.   Restores and cleans roof racks on vehicles. 
  27.   Lubricates and stops squeaks in electric fans 
  28.   Lubricates wheel sprockets on tricycles, wagons, and bicycles for easy handling. 
  29.   Lubricates fan belts on washers and dryers and keeps them running smoothly. 
  30.   Keeps rust from forming on saws and saw blades, and other tools. 
  31.   Removes splattered grease on stove. 
  32.   Keeps bathroom mirror from fogging. 
  33.   Lubricates prosthetic limbs. 
  34.   Keeps pigeons off the balcony (they hate the smell). 
  35.   Removes all traces of duct tape. 
  36.   Folks even spray it on their arms, hands, and knees to relieve arthritis pain.
  37.    Florida favorite use is: 'cleans and removes love bugs from grills and bumpers.' 
  38.   The favorite use in the state of New York, WD-40 protects the Statue of Liberty from the elements. 
  39.   WD-40 attracts fish.  Spray a little on live bait or lures and you will be catching the big one in no time.  Also, it's a lot cheaper than the chemical          attractants that are made for just that purpose.  Keep in mind though, using some chemical laced baits or lures for fishing are not allowed in some  states. 
  40.   Use it for fire ant bites...  It takes the sting away immediately and stops the itch. 
  41.   WD-40 is great for removing crayon from walls.  Spray on the mark and wipe with a clean rag. 
  42.   Also, if you've discovered that your teenage daughter has washed and dried a tube of lipstick with a load of laundry, saturate the lipstick spots with WD-40   and rewash.  Presto!  The lipstick is gone! 
  43.   If you sprayed WD-40 on the distributor cap, it would displace the moisture and allow the car to start. 

  P.S.  The basic ingredient is FISH OIL.   (Yeah, I was thinking this sounded a bit "fishy" to me from the start.  Now that resets the "scales."

Wow... so many uses I have not even imagined !

2 bits more:

1. Cleaning engine exteriors: Surf is a bad idea; I have had bad experiences with it. Dull and lifeless looks Try Glycol - Engine Coolant instead. Bring to a good heat, soak overnight. Repeat if needed
2. After-run: Yes, unless the fuel you are using has additives. More important for nitromethane, due to formation of Nitric Acid, but very very good if you are not going to use your engine for some time. It will not gum up
3. The best actually (which very few including me do) is after the flying session, clean the engine thoroughly inside and outside with methanol, and then put a few drops of good thin oil like 3-in-1 or Singer Sewing Machine oil

@b4ggu
Been looking for an omega supplement to my diet...

Omega Supplement!!!