Don't EVER hold your liquor, young man. DRINK it!

VC,
You know , that's the reason why I chat (speak) less :-)

 

Hello to everyone.  A few months ago I decided to scratch build a ¼ scale Tiger Moth and I also wanted it to be my first "scale" project.  At the time the only plans that I could find were the Mike Smart plans which I bought.  The plans are adequate to build the plane,  (and it is built and ready for final sanding and assembly )but not very detailed for scale.  After further research I came upon the Falcon Tiger Moth and ordered the metal parts and tank and cowl.  After receiving the parts I saw to my dismay that the Smart plans did not show me where any of the complicated Falcon parts are supposed to be positioned.  I also found out the Falcon build is considerably different from the Smart build and the tank and cowl need extensive alteration.  I wrote Falcon and asked for help identifying the metal parts, or could I purchase the plans?  And it gets worse...the parts they sent me are different from the parts on their website.  All my e-mails have been ignored so I don't know if the parts ARE the same, on a different sheet or not the same, for a different plane.  I DO know that there is not part for the tail skid on the parts they sent me.  They have ignored all my e-mails asking for help.  They sure did not ignore the order that I placed with them for a few hundred dollars US!
I also bought a set of plans from Uncle Willie and again, the plans are good, but do not identify all the detail of where the parts go.  20/20 hindsight, I should have bought the Falcon short kit with the plans, but then that would not have been "scratch building! " So, here is my question:  Can you help me identify where these metal parts go by giving or selling me a set of plans, sending me photos of the plans or helping me identify the parts if I send you a photo of my parts sheet. 
Falcon could have solved all this long a go by selling me a set of the plans, but they won't respond.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Davis
ame across this thread while using GOOGLE.  I have a little problem that I hope someone may be able to help with.

I'll see if I can be of help, Davisf 

I have to say that I cannot understand how anyone wanting to build from scratch can bring themselves to purchase components instead of making the parts themselves. Be that as it may, I can see that considerable amount of time may be saved by doing so and I assume that this is the reason for you going that route.

The Falcon Plan and parts are very, very accurate and go together as a package. You must not assume that a Falcon part will be shown on a Mike Smart plan. That's just not fair or reasonable.

Why should Mike Smart include Falcon parts on his drawings?  Falcon does include Falcon parts on the Falcon drawings.

I suggest that you purchase a set of Falcon plans for £45 UK pounds - that includes postage -  you will then discover where all of the metal fittings you have bought fit. They are all shown on the drawings together with the correct size of fastening/s required.  Falcon Models eagerly await your emailed order. http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/

The tailskid is not a part of the metal fittings pack.

Chris (Mr Falcon) Stewart tells me that he responds to all emails just as soon as he is able - and why shouldn't he - and is happy to advise anyone who has difficulty with his kit.

You are absolutely right when you say that you should have bought the Falcon kit to start with.

If I were you I would leave scratch building on the back burner until you have more experience.

If you need further help, this is the place to ask!

To chime in, I completely agree with what Don has to say. You have two different plans from two different designer, parts from third and you would want to add on your inputs as well.
Well that in my opinion is a sure recipe for lots of head scratching.
I have had no issues with mails or advice from Chris. Every time I have sent them a mail with my numerous queries, they have responded with appropriate advice. 

I just stumbled upon this thread, wow! nothing to say, man you've got a lot of work to do..
Very encouraging build.
Go on, finish her and let us see her fly.

CF

Thanks for the replies.  Now that I have a name and not just a sales e-mail address, maybe I can get the plans.

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!  In retrospect after seeing two other plans and part of the Falcon plans, there is no doubt in my mind that Falcon has the most detailed and scale of the plans that I have seen.  I also admit that I was put-off by the price.  I have about $65 invested in the wood.  The construction was a challenge also.  I will post pics of the almost finished airframe on a new thread.

Oh well, live and learn.  When it is done it will have many memories!

I wanted to post the happy ending!  Falcon is going to sell me a set of plans and I will be able to finish the project!  Thanks to everyone for their help.
Davis

Glad to hear the good news, davisf. If you need guidance in your project, just ask, we're here to help.
The Falcon DH82A is not an easy model by any stretch of the imagination and you're sure to have many head-scratching moments. That's what modelling is all about, I suppose.

After some sixty-five years of building model aircraft I am faced with a seemingly insurmountable problem every day.  Good Luck.

Finally plucked up enough courage, cleared the table once more, gave it some more thought, and brought the tail end together. Thankfully the fuse turned out straight and not a the dreaded banana.
Post which the dorsal formers and bottom cross members were added, with a few gussets at strategic location to spread the loads.
The tailplane seat with the blind nuts already seated in were also glued in.

The front bottom portion of the fuse is covered with 3/32 ply.
I had one ply sheet in my kit which when offered length wise was short on width. So had to cut it up chord wise which again was insufficient to cover the entire area. Had to borrow some other pieces from sheets which had other CNC cut parts and then sand it well to merge. You can see the joinery in the previous picture.
Another mistake (on my part) was that the central U/c mounting plates where pushed too deep on to the control tunnel sides. This was not at all detected till the 3/32 sheets were offered for gluing. As a result the sheets which should have lined up do not. Hmm guess I will fill up and sand the offending area with some soft balsa. 

I seem to recall that I found similar problems with the plywood sheet not being large enough until Chris pointed out that it was intended to butt up against the U/C mounting block and that the remaining joins were also to be butted!  I'm buying a new battery for my camera this morning and will post pics of that area for comparison, Manish  I'll add pics of the tailpost as well.

The next task was to glue in the wing retaining fixtures. These are epoxy glass material.
There are three pictures, the front one, rear and the inside fuse view of the rear fixing

Manish
Good going, watching this with gr8 interest

The next job was to prepare the cabane struts. These are from Spruce which are cut to size in length and width from correct size wood stock and the hole for carbon locating/retaining pegs are pre-drilled.
Ends of these struts have to be carefully slit to take the metal fittings. The pre drilled holes in the wood ensure that correct amount of metal fittings protrude above the wood to ensure correct length all around.

Once the struts are bolted in place, the upper, epoxy glass tank sides could be fitted and it was time to fish out the aero-foiled cabane wires which were sourced from Falcon Models made to correct length. These wires are sourced from http://www.flying-wires.ch/flying-wires/index.html.
The metal fittings supplied with the kit result in very accurate wire fixtures.
   

Although the wires were supposed to be of correct length, it was not to be. While the front wires were spot on, the rear one were not. Despite taking up all the slack the wires were still pretty loose. At the end I had to think of alternatives and decided to try and fix up the rear wires at other location, to this affect brass fittings were made. Though the length is now fixed, I would have to make new fittings out of brass so that it anchors at at-least two bolts and does not turn when the wires are tightened.

The entire cabane assembly initially looked frail and was wondering if it was fit for purpose, but once the wires were taut, the whole thing becomes incredibly rigid.

Don, have a question for you. While I noticed that you have twisted the wires to better represent the full size, I am not sure if the wires I have could be twisted. When I had this question for Chris, he says that on full size it is not twisted just aligned to offer least resistance to the air while moving through air

a feast for eyes.   

Manish. I've eventually found time away from earning my living to look at the DH82A again

Here are some pics which are of the areas under discussion.  You had doubts about the tailpost and it's position. I, too, had a problem with this area. If the tailpost is hard up against the rear of the fuselage the front fixing hole will not line up with the threaded captive nut.

But... If the front fixing lines up there's a gap at between the rear of the fuselage and the tailpost. According to Chris this is correct

Of these four pics the last two are correct...

Here are some pics of the underside plywood cladding.  Not that the joints are all butted one to another, including the undercarriage support beam. (pics 1&2)

Like you, I have modified the top fitting to the U/C by turning up some ali, rod for a more scale-like appearance. (pic3)

The front fitting for the U/C drag strut is very close to scale. (pic4)

Finally, for now Manish, regarding the twist in the cabane rigging.  Chris says that his prototype had none and that the aerofoil section wires are merely positioned fore & aft to present the minimum surface to the airflow with a leather patch to keep the wires from touching.

However, the one I'm modelling does have a twist in the wires but, and it's a big but,  I'm using Mick Reeves flat wire to brace the cabane and twisting was no problem.

Here's acouple of pics. First one of 'PK from the Traplet kit and, secondly, the Falcon kit. 

I hope to keep up with you a little more often than of late. Cheers

Thanks Don for the pictures, those do help a lot.
I have decided to slightly alter the location of the front blind nut which captures the fin base so that the fin post remains within the metal brackets and would enable me to drill holes for the bolt without significantly altering the strength of the fin post.
On the wires I think I would go with without twist, but then would have to search for a full scale which did not have them and then copy the colour scheme and other details from there.
I am sure once finished no one would notice the deviation 

Further query for you. The Falcon models, the tailplane is fixed on two ply seats which are not glued on the edges of spruce longerons but slightly inboard. What would be the reason for that? And how does the empty space from the edges get filled up ?

Also could you recommend me some good online source for ordering fastners in BA sizes. Not only I need some not included in the kit but also replace the ones which have mysteriously disappeared since the kit was opened.

To start at the end of your post, Manish.

AAAh! The disappearing contents. We've all been through that. I frequently telephone suppliers complaining about missings items and subsequently find the thing on the floor at some later date.  I have used EKP for all of my model engineering supplies for a long time now and have never been let down. They are at https://ekpsupplies.com/index.php and may be relied upon.

I assume that you refer to the gap, indicated by my scalpel blade, between the plywood seat and the longeron edge as in the first pic.  If that is the case, pic 2 should help you make the decision to go for true scale and you should cover over with doped nylon.
I hope that helps.

The DH82A at my local airfield has streamlined wires with no twist. I'm told that is the norm. so you could stick with your scheme.

I.too, will be moving the front captive nut fixing to line up with the hole in the for'ard part of the fin.

Goodnight, Manish  
 

I just found this thread. Great job you are doing, I built a 1/4 scale Tiger Moth 25 years ago from a Pilot kit. I still have it and it still flies. I wanted something more scale. I was tossing up between the Falcon model and the 1/3 Toni Clark model. Judging your comments it seams to be a really complete and scale kit. What motor do you intend to use for this?