Hi Guys,
I am planning to get into petrol engines after flying electric for a long time. I plan to setup a 26cc or a 50cc gas plane (preferably a YAK).. But problem is I am a noob to all this. Have always been into electrics. So I would be really grateful if someone could guide me on what setup I should look at. The things I am looking at are,
Engine (DL, MVVS, SPE)
Airframe (any suggestions?? 3D models only)
Servos (would prefer cost effective ones)
Rx (AR7000)
RX Power supply (11.1V 2650 mAh Lipo with BEC)
Prop (no idea!!)
What should be the AUW for a 26cc plane / 50cc plane?
And is it better to go in for a 50cc instead of a 26cc? I am looking for a budget oriented setup. Other than the engine and airframe, is there any other expense involved in taking a 50cc compared to the 26cc?
Rough pricing would also help a lot.
Thanks a lot guys in advance.
Regards,
Chan
Hi man,
why dont you try out the Sukhoi 26-45 CC( see the attachment).Its a great plane for 3d.You can suit it with a SPe 45(Rs11200) or a spe 26(Rs 8800) avl in rotor.Most of all you need to put in some nice servos-I would for sure suggest Futaba digital Servos.P.S. Apart from the obvious increase in engine and model cost there is no other addtnl expense in moving from 26 to 50 cc(The size of the model too doesnt increase dramatically)
Model Seen at : http://mpowershopping.in/mpower_arf
Thanks Ghanesh. I saw the model. Somehow I always preferred YAKs to Sukhois! I think I would stick with either a YAK or an Edge. Anyways that is a very nice model but should be able to fly nicely on a 45 to 50 cc engine. I personally feel it might be underpowered with a 26cc. But lets see. Would keep it on my list. Futaba Digital Servos cost a bomb. I was looking more into Hitec which has high quality digital servos. But what torque and timing should i use? How many servos are required? Does a 50cc need more servos than a 26cc??
Chan
Hi Chan,
Please see the link below we have many models to choose from for both 26cc & 50cc ARF
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=64
We have also upload a video of Yak55 50cc on the forum which is flown by Meenakshi Sundaram the link of the video is http://www.rcindia.org/gas-glow-nitro-planes/yak-55-sp-50cc-flown-in-chennai/
Apart from him Rajesh Narayanswamy & Capt Velraj from chennai have picked up the gassers from www.rcdhamaka.com
The props would be 22x10, 22x8 to start with for 50cc & 16x8, 17x6 for 26cc to start with.
The models sold by us is the same that is sold by www.peakmodel.com www.eastrc.org www.cermark.com www.dawghouserc.net
PLane Specs:
Wing Span 71in /1800mm
Wing Area 976sq in / 63sqdm
Fuselage Length 61in / 1550mm
Flying Weight 11.5lbs / 5800g
Engine Required 26cc(Normal Performance)-45cc( High end 3d)Gas Engine
Radio Required 5Channels 8servos
mate how long to you wanna stick to your yak fixation!!Personally the su is my choice.Well you said it right the model does require 45cc engine if you need top performance.And the no of servos wont increase mate
Hi Sanjeev,
I have seen both of Mr.Meenakshi's Yak 50cc from you and I was flying with Rajesh last week. He had brought the 26cc Yak. I got the gas idea from him only. And Mr. Meenakshi is a big motivation for me to get into Gas as well!! specially after seeing his 50cc YAK.. So am just waiting for the right setup.. Once I decide on the servos and the engine, I would definitely get in touch with you! Am not able to check your site. It has been recently blocked in my office.
Chan
Hi Chan,
Welcome to the world of "NOISY" flying. I just barely got into Gasser before my plans to move.
If you need a "real" 3D gasser, go for 50cc. The raw power of gas engines will be unleashed if the cc is above 40.. 50 being a perfect fit. If you have the budget go for the DA... best VFM is RCGF engines. RCGF seem to have good review and have more power/rpm for equivalent sized SPE or DLs. SPE is on the low end and it seems to be widely available in India. I have one 26cc the power seem to be OK.
For 26cc you need a prop of 17x6 to 18x8. The mannual that comes with the engine should give you a good idea of the prop sizes.
One important aspect of gas engines are that they are very very sensitive to needle settings (high/low end). It really helps if you understand the working of the gas engine carb as it is not as simple as the glow engine carb. Tuning the engine is a bit tricky as even a 1/16th of a turn will have pronounced effect on the engine performance. As a result you may need to tune the enigne now and then for different wheather conditions. Once you get the hang of it, you would love gas engines... I am sure there are lots of experienced folks in Chennai who can guide you very well.
I guess, once you fly the gasser you would feel... "Louder the better".
Here is a link to an intro on gas engine carbs..
http://www.drystacked.com/Walbro%20Carburetor%20Theory%20ebook1.pdf
-Ismail
I too am very curious about information on gassers. All I have seen so far is one gasser heli (Century Predator), and I know they can run forever on one tank :o The owner was a real pilot in Qatar Airways, and said he preferred long flights. Nitro setups would only give him around 10 minutes of max flying time, while the gasser would give him around 30 minutes !
Can a 50cc gas powered plane hover and do torque rolls ? Do they generate enough thrust ?
well sir the gassers run pretty much the same way as nitro ones do.I myself am in the process of setting up a gasser(superstar with a RCGF 26cc).Also i have been in close quarters when Mr.Nosheer in Chennai flew is 50Cc yak.And he was just about rocking the whole way through
Quote from: anwar on March 31, 2009, 12:08:27 PM
Can a 50cc gas powered plane hover and do torque rolls ? Do they generate enough thrust ?
Anwar,
If you need to hower at half stick, do a torque roll and then pull up vertical to the sky.. then you should think of 50cc and above... There may be a few gassers at lower displacement but my opinion is these smaller engines will be running at the verge of ceasing itself to deliver that kind of power.
Most 3D flyers prefer Gas to Glow becuase of the thrust it generates. The prop sizes that a Gas Engine can spin are also much bigger. Add to this the advantages of fuel availablity and lesser muck. That was the reason I am planning a nice Gas setup instead of a Glow. I already have a few glow planes and engines which I am not using. I have a .46 Funstar and a .60 King Kobra as a part of my Hangar and also a couple of .15 and .25 engines. Avoiding all this for quite sometime. But my obsession for noisy flying (as Ismail rightly pointed out) is taking over now!!! The next problem is the transportation. Would sort that out soon. After taking Ismail's suggestion, i think I would get a RCGF 46cc engine and couple it up with a 50cc YAK.
Servos should still be finalized.
Would the 4cc drop in power be significant?? Something like the difference between .40 and .46 glow engines?? or is it negligible??
Are the RCGF 46cc engines more powerful than the DL / SPE 50ccs?? I have not come across 50cc engines from RCGF!
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Chan
Chan,
Check these KATANA out I dont have stock of it but can get it for you as I am their dealer electric products :
http://www.rvminc.net/products.php?cat=161
Sai
Don't know if you can, but I smell freedom here ! {:)}
Finally, I see hobby shops openly competing for business in a professional manner, ultimately benefitting the hobbyist. Links of competing products are being thrown around liberally, and merits and demerits are being discussed !
We are living in interesting times ! Free times !
QuoteChan,
Check these KATANA out I dont have stock of it but can get it for you as I am their dealer electric products :
http://www.rvminc.net/products.php?cat=161
Sai
Thanks uncle. Am not able to access that site here in office. Would definitely check it out.
There is a poll conducted in RCGroups sometime back.. It should be still available I guess. RCGF topped the poll as good VFM and good performance for moderate standandard gasser. DA was on the high end and there is no question about its performance.
On the servos, go for good metal gear ones. Lots of it availabe from Hitech. PowerHD servos seem to be getting popular and is getting good reviews. Never use the chinese brands like tower pro, etc.. They have centering issues, drain the battery a lot, and get warm.. I have one of these chinese brands in my Zeus aircraft and I regret using it.
Further, use a pull-pull set up for the rudder and elevator with an idler assembly. The idler assembly will be reduce excess stress on the servos. Capt. Manish is the right person to approach on this.
-Ismail
Thanks for all the info Ismail. Would definitely get Capt. Manish to brief me on the idler assembly. Moreover, one thing that has been troubling me is, is the 46cc RCGF going to be less powerful than the 50cc DL / SPE?? Is the 4cc difference significant??
Chan
50cc is pretty standard displacement. Should be available. Googling for "RCGF 50cc" shows some hits.
5cc is a significant deal in engine displacement. However, the model that you use for 40cc or 50cc is about the same so, you would not feel any major differences. Anyway, try to get 50cc if available.
One more aspect of gasser is that they tend to vibrate a lot... Since you have been flying electrics, you will be greatly astonished by the amount of vibration these enignes put out. In fact, you can feel the tail feathers shaking intune with the engine vibration. Take adequeate steps for vibration suppression techniques when mounting the engine.
-Ismail
Quote from: chanvivek on March 31, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Hi Sanjeev,
I have seen both of Mr.Meenakshi's Yak 50cc from you and I was flying with Rajesh last week. He had brought the 26cc Yak. I got the gas idea from him only. And Mr. Meenakshi is a big motivation for me to get into Gas as well!! specially after seeing his 50cc YAK.. So am just waiting for the right setup.. Once I decide on the servos and the engine, I would definitely get in touch with you! Am not able to check your site. It has been recently blocked in my office.
Chan
Any time Chan
Hi Ismail,
RCGF 50cc is available. But in India, I was able to find the 45cc version (not 46cc), with Sunil. But i think that should do!
And regarding the vibrations, I would definitely take care to use supression techniques!
Thanks for all the help
Chan
Keep us in the loop in your final choice, prices, build, test flight etc etc ;)
One of the most interesting aspects of RC is to see others fly, and see their equipment. I request everyone to maximize posting of such information. To the same effect, I request everyone to start posting their hangar information also.
A friend of mine suggested that the 5645s for the aileron / elevator is a bit risky. I am left with no choice other the 7955s which cost a bomb!! So i need to get 5 7955s which is going to cost me about 30k!! Is there any other safer alternative for the servos?? Anyone has tried any other configuration? I would also appreciate any reviews on the newly introduced DL-55 and the MT-57. Debating between the two engines now.
Any personal experience with the MT-57 would be greatly appreciated.
- Chan
You could look at Hyperion Atlas DS20 or DS20x servos. It is new in the market and have been getting good reviews.
Hi RotorZone,
I just checked out the Hyperion Servos. There is one servo called the Hyperion Atlas DS20xUMT (i think).. that is the only one with torque greater than 20kgs. Could you please publish more data on that? And if you stock it, could you also let me know the pricing. Thanks.
- Chan
Sorry we don't stock it. It was just for your info since I was seeing quite a few good reports about them recently. Also note that they specify torque and stall torque. Most other manufacturers just specify stall torque. That is the number you should compare.
Thanks for the info. I would also do some ground work on the Hyperion Servos. Am looking for alternatives for hitec. But everyone around me who fly gassers are using only Hitec. Just wanted to break the stereotype ;) ;)!! There is no doubt that Hitec is one of the best. But there should be other options (cheaper) that we should look at and analyze as well.. Being a regular Hyperion user, I know the quality standards of these people and would trust a Hyperion servo if I find some good reports on RCG / RCU!! Let me start my home work now!!
- Chan
Quote from: chanvivek on April 17, 2009, 03:56:46 PM
Just wanted to break the stereotype ;) ;)!!
- Chan
I would suggest the same with the Airframe as well :D
Something other than a YAK , I think every Gassers around is YAK ;D
Sai
Hello uncle,
I definitely agree that most of the gassers are YAKs. But then I have a definite addiction (:|~ (:|~ towards that model and moreover it is a very well behaved plane compared to the extra or the edge. Both the Extra and the Edge drop a wing at higher speeds whereas the YAK can be stalled nicely without dropping a wing. That huge cowl alone is enough to distract me from even thinking of other planes! This would be my 3rd YAK but there would be many more! ;D ;D
- Chan
Chan,
I got a YAK 54 from rcdhamaka, just last week. Its looks awesome. I am still deciding on the servos/ engine, but the plane looks awesome, and the build is light too.
Let me know when you get yours . Ill post pictures of my setup when i start assembling.
-Gaurav
Hey Gaurav,
Did you get the one with the checkered flag on the cowl? It looks great I know. There is also a YAK 54 for sale in Chennai which I am considering as I am getting it at a good bargain. Even that looks great. Awesome colour scheme. A little bit indecisive still. But the bargain is too dear to resist. It is the same as the RCDhamaka YAK except for the colour scheme.
- Chan
Chan,
On the servos, I see two options
1, Use two servos with lower torque instead of having one servo with a higher torque? The cost may work out in your favour.
2, Other option is to use boost tabs.. Here is a small intro on boost tabs -> http://www.geocities.com/roger_forgues/Boost-tabs.html
You can use a lower torque servo to actuate a control surface having a boost tab... But I am not sure you would dare to experiement this in your first gasser.
-Ismail
Hi Guys,
Regarding the servos, what should be the torque I should be looking at. Let us estimate the AUW of the plane to be roughly 8 kgs. A 86" YAK.
My question is, is a 10kg torque servo enough for each aileron? And 2 x 10kg servos for the elevator?
The plane uses two servos for the elevator and one for each aileron.
I was initially planning on 5645s (10kg torque MG servos from Hitec) for the elevator and ailerons but was a bit skeptic. But yesterday I saw a friend of mine with a 50cc YAK (the same one in the thread opened by RCDhamaka - YAK 55 SP flown in Chennai) that had 5645s on the ailerons and elevator and a 5955 (23kg torque) for the rudder. The planes flying fine but has not been put through much of 3D aerobatics. I was wondering whether the servos would hold through snap rolls and flat spins after a certain period.
How do I calculate what torque is required for the servo? I was hoping for a 8kg plane, 10kg servos should be fine except for the rudder. Any comments anyone?
- Chan
Hi Guys,
Activity started on the plane.. Finalized and picked up the DA 50 yesterday evening. It has been run on the ground for half a tank and it has flown two sorties on a World Models Extra 330. Owner didnt like the combo and retired the engine.. That is the history of the enigne. Hardly two and a half tanks have been run!! Engine has been neatly packed and maintained. No stains, no marks or scratches.. Everything is in mint condition.. Packed in dual plastic covers and sealed in a cardboard box. Got it for a nice bargain from a really helpful person in Chennai!! Would post some pics soon..
The box contained,
1. The engine with the spark plug
2. The standoffs without mounting bolts
3. The ignition module
4. The switch
5. Some misc hardware
Would start work on the model soon. Having all the critical joints strengthened and clear coat sprayed this weekend. Then would start the mounting.
Please give me some suggestions for dampening the vibrations!! And also some building tips on these 50ccs would be really helpful..
Thanks..
Regards,
Chan
Posting some pics of the engine..
Great pics. I am waiting to get mine ( thought would be a few months later ) .
BTW what Rx battery pack have you thought of using on your gasser ? Lipo or A123 ?
You got to be very careful when setting up that beast ! I was thinking of dual switch and dual battery packs ...
-Gaurav
Hi Gaurav,
Even I am going to put in dual switch with dual packs. There is a special switch for that purpose. It is called a Miracle switch. Just search for it. I think it just helps in connecting both the battery packs in parallel. So both of them are connected to the Rx in a sort of Y parallel connection. In this case, even if one pack fails, then the other pack takes over and similarly when one pack runs out of charge, the other one would handle the Rx power!! I would prefer A123s but am still not familiar with the technology. So I think I would initially go in for Lipolys (direct 7.4V 2000 mAh) since both the Rx and servos can handle high voltages and I would not use a BEC!!
Parallely, I would start using A123 packs on my 40 size planes and electrics to check their reliability (not that I doubt them)!!
What engine have you finalized?? I think the best bang for the buck is the DLE55 or the MT 57 right now.. and DLE has better support and spares availability!
- Chan
Chan,
Which Rx will you use ? Not sure Futaba FAAST ones can take 7.4V directly ?
I have not yet finalized the engine yet. If i get a good deal in US i will get it from there, otherwise will buy it a little later.
Have you thought of using a smoke system ? It would look cool with a gasser this size, plus the engine would be generating enough heat to run it.
7955TG seem to be great, but they are expensive. but perhaps i will also go in for them,. I have read a bit on Metal Gears and not sure i seem to like them too much
-Gaurav
Hey Gaurav,
I also have to check whether FASST Rx can take 7.4 direct.. I know very well that Spektrum can handle it well. If not, then either use BECs or use A123s.. no other option (NiCd is not an option for me ;D)!! And moreover, the ignition unit for the DA 50 is not meant for 7.4V direct. It can take a maximum of 6V. So I have to use a BEC or a A123!! Just checked the DA manual!
Moreover, the 7955 TG are available for 89 USD at http://www.chiefaircraft.com . You can probably get a better deal with them if you can bargain a bit. 80 USD for them is actually a very good deal. See if you can land up with them!!
I have already decided to put on a smoke system but only after I break in the engine and get it running smoothly. I would take another 3 months atleast to put that in. I might get a pump though now itself. DAs are meant to have atleast 5 gallons of fuel through them before you can call them broken in. Thats roughly 25 litres of petrol.. 2 litres a week would mean 12 weeks or 3 months time for just breaking in the engine!! I can start ripping only after that.. Then comes the smoke system.. Would device it something like a snap-on, so that it can be removed easily whenever I want to. Dont know the entire mechanism though. Should start reading up on it! Post some pics of your model dude!! Would be great to see it on the site!! Just dry assemble eveything and put up some pics!!
- Chan
Hi Guys,
I have acquired pretty much everything to start the build now. Let me put up a sort of a list that anyone setting up their first gasser would find very helpful. Someone let me know if I am missing something so that I can acquire the same before starting the build.
1. Nitro Models Yak 54 50cc Airframe
2. DA 50 Gasoline Engine with Ignition, Standoffs, Muffler, Switch and Spark Plug
3. Futaba 10CHG Dedicated 2.4 Ghz Radio
4. Futaba 8 channel high speed Rx (6008)
5. Hitec 7955 Titanium Gear Coreless Digital Titanium Geared Servos - 5 nos.
6. Hitec 5485 Digital Servo Karbonite Gear for Throttle
7. XOAR 22 x 8 wooden prop (yet to be purchased)
8. Heavy Duty Extensions (36") - 2 nos.
9. Heavy Duty Extensions (24") - 4 nos.
10. Aluminium Spinner 3.5"
11. Rx / Ignition Power Supply (Either Lipo with BEC or A123) (yet to be purchased)
12. 2T Engine Oil (Either regular 2T mineral oil or Pennzoil)
13. Heavy Duty Switches - 2 nos.
14. Battery Connectors
15. Reinforcement material if required
16. On Board Voltage Checker (yet to be purchased)
17. Misc Hardware like Zip Ties, Double Side Tape etc.
18. Good Epoxy (Araldite should be fine)
19. Fuel Can
20. Fuel Pump for Petrol
I think thats about all that is required. Build would start this weekend. Would keep posting the progress.
- Chan
would love to have some pics too
Would post some pics of all the setup I would be using. Hoping to celebrate my first aeromodelling anniversary (Jul 27th) with the YAK. In another month, I would be marking my 1st year of entry into aeromodelling :):)!! Attaching some pics taken on July 27th 2008 when I flew my first solo (that was the day when I had my first takeoff / landing / learning)!! before that I would just take the sticks from dad high up in the air and hold for a min or 2 and give it back... But on this day I was literally forced to do my first takeoff, landing and solo flight including loops and barrel rolls!! The easy star rocked and proved to be a solid learning companion helping me to progress to a 50cc in a year :) :)!! My line up of planes in chronological order..
1. Easy Star
2. Great Planes Electrostreak
3. World Models Cessna
4. GWS Tiger Moth 3D
5. Flight8 Yak
6. Seduction
7. Megafly
8. Yak 55 .50 size electric
9. Nasty
10. Phoenix Funstar .40 size
11. Hyperion 3-Delight
12. Thunder Tiger Christen Eagle
13. Techone Katana
14. King Kobra .60 size
- Chan
Hi Guys,
Starting work on my gasser today..Got the wing and the elevator halves on the table now.. Today's agenda is to finish hinging both the ailerons and the elevator halves..
Would have to chart out a building plan (which I definitely know that I would not stick to!)..
Day 2:
I would start servo mounting on the ailerons and the elevator tomorrow!! The rudder hinging / canopy sticking would also be done tomorrow..
This would be followed by rudder servo mounting..
Day 3:
The difficult part of the engine / ignition / cowl mounting would be done next..
Day 4 / Day 5:
The tank / Rx / throttle servo and the all the misc stuff would be done last..
This is supposed to be a 5 day plan!! But not a 5 continous day affair!! Would probably work for 10 days to get this finished.. Would post the build thread side by side!!
- Chan
And heres a picture of the exact color scheme that I have!
Quote from: chanvivek on July 13, 2009, 04:11:50 PM
Hi Guys,
Starting work on my gasser today..Got the wing and the elevator halves on the table now.. Today's agenda is to finish hinging both the ailerons and the elevator halves..
Would have to chart out a building plan (which I definitely know that I would not stick to!)..
Day 2:
I would start servo mounting on the ailerons and the elevator tomorrow!! The rudder hinging / canopy sticking would also be done tomorrow..
This would be followed by rudder servo mounting..
Day 3:
The difficult part of the engine / ignition / cowl mounting would be done next..
Day 4 / Day 5:
The tank / Rx / throttle servo and the all the misc stuff would be done last..
This is supposed to be a 5 day plan!! But not a 5 continous day affair!! Would probably work for 10 days to get this finished.. Would post the build thread side by side!!
- Chan
Chan ,
Do you expect me to believe that :o :o ;D ;D
Knowing normally day 2 is maiden , considering the price and the size I would be fairly confident of a Day 3 Maiden at best the coming week end .
Looking forward to the flight report in a day or two ;D :D
sai
Hey Chan,
The color trim on your YAK looks cooool ! Way to go.!
Hope you get yours up and ready soon now. BTW i was surprised to know that its been just one year since you got into aeromodelling !
Given your skill in flying and your aeromodelling collection. I think its an achievement .
Good luck with the build, and keep us all posted !
-Gaurav
great chan bhaiya looking foward towards the build (:|~ (:|~
Quote from: izmile on March 31, 2009, 12:07:41 PM
Tuning the engine is a bit tricky as even a 1/16th of a turn will have pronounced effect on the engine performance. As a result you may need to tune the enigne now and then for different wheather conditions.
Please correct me if wrong, I was reading up on gas engines and also went through the link you posted. Are basic smaller engines like 23cc and 26cc 2 stroke engines as complicated as the bigger 50cc ones?
I have heard that although they are very sensitive to needle turns, once they are tuned, the carb needs no further changes unless you are looking to derive more performance. That was the primary difference, the article mentions compared to glow engines. It also says weather changes dont affect the tuning much like glow engines.
Also note, I was reading about CY and Zenoah 23cc or 26cc engines that comes on 1/5 scales.
Quote from: rcforall on July 13, 2009, 05:08:24 PM
Chan ,
Do you expect me to believe that :o :o ;D ;D
Knowing normally day 2 is maiden , considering the price and the size I would be fairly confident of a Day 3 Maiden at best the coming week end .
Looking forward to the flight report in a day or two ;D :D
sai
hello uncle...
thats how I would have liked it!! But the epoxy used for the hinges alone take a day to dry on each side :(!!
Moreover, there are loads of things to be looked into! But still the temptation lingers :) :)!!
Quote from: gauravag on July 13, 2009, 05:11:36 PM
Hey Chan,
The color trim on your YAK looks cooool ! Way to go.!
Hope you get yours up and ready soon now. BTW i was surprised to know that its been just one year since you got into aeromodelling !
Given your skill in flying and your aeromodelling collection. I think its an achievement .
Good luck with the build, and keep us all posted !
-Gaurav
Quote from: Pikle6 on July 14, 2009, 05:34:41 AM
great chan bhaiya looking foward towards the build (:|~ (:|~
Thanks for the compliments Gaurav.. Would definitely update this thread with the build!
Quote from: mail4ajo on July 14, 2009, 09:26:13 PM
Quote from: izmile on March 31, 2009, 12:07:41 PM
Tuning the engine is a bit tricky as even a 1/16th of a turn will have pronounced effect on the engine performance. As a result you may need to tune the enigne now and then for different wheather conditions.
Please correct me if wrong, I was reading up on gas engines and also went through the link you posted. Are basic smaller engines like 23cc and 26cc 2 stroke engines as complicated as the bigger 50cc ones?
I have heard that although they are very sensitive to needle turns, once they are tuned, the carb needs no further changes unless you are looking to derive more performance. That was the primary difference, the article mentions compared to glow engines. It also says weather changes dont affect the tuning much like glow engines.
Also note, I was reading about CY and Zenoah 23cc or 26cc engines that comes on 1/5 scales.
Thats right!! The needle settings are best left untouched!! They generally need no tuning at all.. The factory settings are almost perfect.. Even if any tuning is required, it is an one time affair!!
- Chan
Hi Mail,
Yes, gas engines are very sensitive to needle changes. If they are sensitive then there is a strong possiblity that there are some dependencies and you might need changes often. Most RC gas engines have diaphram type carbs which operates on pressure differences on both sides of the diaphram, so clearly, they should be having some dependency on weather change and altitude differences (Atmospheric pressure). Further, the engine performance also changes once it warms up to it normal operating temperature. May be for these reasons even the full scale WW2 type (piston engined) planes have mixture control that could be changed by the pilot depending on the weather/altitude conditions. I doubt if you could leave the settings as is after the first tuning. I am sure you would be tempted to retune the engine as you would feel like- Its not what its used to be.
Frankly, I seldom retune my glow engines once they are set. Most of the time they are on the spot no matter what the weather conditions are.
Methanol has a wider flash point than petrol. Its not too fussy about the temperature and pressure changes. However, pertrol has a very narrow flash point and will not ignite (or ignite early) if the conditions are not in its operating range. - This is what I learnt when I was working on the pulsejet project. Don't ask me the flash point figures as I conviniently forgot all of that... :D
-Ismail
hey chan bhaiya you must have seen this but just thought i would post it here
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg42/7743-nitro-models-yak-54-3d-build-thread.html (http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg42/7743-nitro-models-yak-54-3d-build-thread.html)
Pikle6,
Thats a .50 glow engine model !! What Chan is building is a 50 CC Gas airplane . Almost 10 times bigger in size !
-Gaurav
oops sorry i am a bit too illiterate in gas and glow and anything like that i just saw that the name was somewhat similar so i posted it sorry
hey thanks for the help anyways!! heres the correct thread..
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg76/13134-yak-54-50cc.html
- Chan
@ chan & gaurav,
can we have some pics of your models. Like the box, a peek into the arf. Also it will give us a idea as to how big the box is
Chan,
Any idea how much Amps would the Hitech 7955 pull ?
Futaba officially claims that their RX bus can handle current of 5A with peaks of 8A .
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8754173/tm.htm
with the 5 7955s, i guess our load rating is going to exceed this ? Note that higher current will cause the bus to heat, and then their are potential heat issues with the Futaba FASST Rxs ..
Let me know what you think.
-Gaurav
No issues with 5x7955s and Futaba receivers (2.4 or 72). The thread below has the Hitec rep confirming the same.
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg29/22093-new-hitec-7955s-24.html
Thanks for that Anwar.. Gaurav's post had me worried for a moment!! But people use more servos with the same Rx on much bigger planes and jets!
Attaching some pics of my model.. Please excuse the quality as it was taken indoors with my mobile cam..
Would be posting some more pics as I proceed with the build..
- Chan
Some more pics..
Chan,
Your plane looks great. I also think that the 7955 "should" be fine with the Futaba Rx, though people using more servos use powerboxes that help distribute power to the servos, and so that they do not just rely on the RX as their power source.
BTW, i ordered the A123 pack from Hobbicity, so should have then pretty soon.
-Gaurav
Chan - Good use of a real life "model" to help everyone understand the true dimensions of the plane ;D Hope he grows up to be another John Abraham (the good bits !)
Quote from: gauravag on July 20, 2009, 01:42:27 PM
Your plane looks great. I also think that the 7955 "should" be fine with the Futaba Rx, though people using more servos use powerboxes that help distribute power to the servos, and so that they do not just rely on the RX as their power source.
-Gaurav
The "power boxes" add another level of "peace of mind", but at the 5 servo level, the criticality is fairly insignificant, it seems.
Hi Everyone,
The hinging of the wings is complete. The kit came with Robart style hinges. Since this was the first time I was using these hinges, I took help from a more experienced flyer for getting these sorted out. We first started by dry fitting the ailerons to the wing and marked the spots where the gap was uneven. The holes into which the hinges seat were then filed accordingly and dry fitted again till the fit was perfect. Once we got the fit right, we applied vaseline on the swivel part of the hinges to avoid accidental epoxy hardening on the pivot. Then we mixed some 30 min epoxy and applied it to the hinge holes in the wing and also the hinges and aligned them on the wing. Care should be taken that the pivot is perfectly perpendicular to the wing to achieve the hinging action. Some more pictures would have helped, but I just happened to have a few taken after the hinging to observe the aileron fit.
Once the epoxy hardens on the wing side, then apply epoxy on the aileron portion and the other side the hinges and slide it in till the fit is achieved. Once that is done, move the ailerons on either side once till max deflection is achieved. Then center aileron and let the epoxy cure.
- Chan
Any one selling a used gasser air frame I am interested .
Sai
hey chan bhaiya just saw you were online any update on the 50cc yak build
subbu
hey subbu,
still no improvement.. having work to do on some other planes.. so 50cc on hold temporarily!! Converted my Yak 50 from electric to glow!!
- Chan
Hi Guys,
Work resumed on my gasser.. Looking for an early next week maiden.. As seen previously, I had completed hinging of my ailerons.. Let me go into aileron servo mounting next...
This was a little difficult to get across..
I first used some thin CA and hardened the servo mounting plate on the wing.. Then I put an extension through the wing and connected the servo and mounted the servo.. It was a perfect fit without me having to do any sanding!! The servo hole was perfectly aligned and set for the Hitec 7955 servo.. Next I had to do the control horn mounting.. All the pushrods were ball link joints and I was very much new to them..I mounted one end of the ball link pushrod to the servo arm using an allen bolt and a checknut.. I marked the other end on the aileron and setup one control horn and aligned it at 90 degrees to the servo arm.. After marking it and cutting open the monokote, I hardened the part using thin CA again and fixed the control horn using 4 wood screws.. Now I had a problem.. When the push rod is 90 deg from the servo arm, I do not have enough plywood in the aileron to mount 2 control horns.. So I left it with only one arm.. And after hunting a bit on the internet, I found that they suggest mounting the pushrod at a slight acute angle to the servo arm.. So I guess I have to do a little bit of rework on it now! I did the same thing to the other aileron also..
Let me continue with the elevator hinging and servo mounting in my next post.. Would also put in some pics later on during the day!!
- Chan
When I updated the thread this morning, I did not have to make any cosmetic changes but as I am writing this, I have to compromise a bit on my rudder hinging..
The rudder robart hinges did not seat properly and it took up most of today to rip off the epoxyied hinges and I used a slot machine to cut regular slots in the rudder post in the fuse and the rudder.. I have used Klett nylon flat hinges used in 1/4th scale applications instead of robart hinges on the rudder alone.. Had to compromise a bit on the looks of the tail post, though it wont show much once the rudder is mounted.. but it was a bit messy!!
Engine mounting and rudder servo mounting is scheduled for tomorrow morning.. Am going to hinge the rudder now on the new hinges and also stick the canopy!!
- Chan
Build Update..
Elevators were hinged similar to the ailerons.. There was absolutely no flaws on that one.. It sat very easily.. Little bit of filing had to be done for them to get that perfect seating!!
The elevator servos came inside the elevator halves with just the arm jutting out of the elevator half.. This again has dual control horns and ball links.. As usual I had hardened the wood prior to servo and control horn mounting using a good deal of CA!
After hinging the elevator halves and mounting the servos, I connected the wings and the elevators one by one to a Hitec servo programmer and programmed them with the center points and end points! And checked whether they worked in sync with each other..
After a paranoic inspection of the wings and elevators, I kept them aside terming them ready to mount !!
Then I stuck the Canopy onto the hatch with canopy glue.. But now it looks like I have to do some minor surgeries to make it seat properly in the front.. Nothing major or cosmetically damaging though!!
The stock landing gear was mounted along with the stock wheels though I might upgrade to Dubro after the maiden flight.. Tail gear was pretty bad and took quite a while to settle and that too I had to dump a load of epoxy to make sure that the tail wheel swings in sync with the rudder!
Engine mounting was completed and cowl cutting is done to a pretty much decent level today morning.. Was very straight forward and it sat flush using 2.5" stand offs!
Now just woke up from my siesta and sitting on the work bench.. Agenda for tonight..
1. Rudder servo mounting
2. Throttle servo mounting
3. Canopy rework
4. Engine finalized mounting
5. All plumbing..
Looking forward to taking the plane to the field tomorrow morning and having a field test.. Should work out ok if I am on schedule tonight..
Cheers !!
Would have some pics definitely tonight.. Thanks guys..
- Chan
please please please give us some pics after you are done (:|~ (:|~ (:|~ (:|~
subbu
Hey guys,
Maidened and flew the plane today evening! Would post a detailed report tonight.. time for some pics from the field today evening..
- Chan
some more pics
some more pics..
Wow superb chan {:)} {:)}
Congrats on the build man...
Bad luck with the rain god..
cheers {:)}
atul g.
great chan bhaiya waiting for the report and the video toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (:|~ (:|~ (:|~ (:|~
subbu
{:)} {:)} {:)}
Hi guys,
High time I updated this thread...
Let me continue with the build thread..
The rudder servo mounting was one of the easier parts of the build.. The servo sat easily on the tray and the pull pull rigging was also perfectly done... Two control horns were installed on either side of the rudder.. The supplied stock pull pull cable is very strong and is definitely not going to snap!
Throttle servo was placed right next to the tank and took a straight linkage to the throttle arm in the engine. No bends on the pushrod.. The engine side of the pushrod was linked using a Great Planes Ball Joint and on the servo side, I used a small aluminium arm with a pushrod retainer.. Worked perfectly fine..
Canopy rework was very minor and required a little bit of stickering..
The plumbing and engine mounting were also very straight with absolutely no problems.. Pictures would speak for themselves!
My next post would be about testing the plane and programming it!
- Chan
Sounds cool !
Awaiting pictures and engine test report.
Now i just got my engine + servos, and noticed that the props require drilling. Have you done yours ? Seems that this needs some precision work here.
-Gaurav
Had my first crash in my 50 cc!! Not really a crash but a botched landing!!
Had 10 landings while practicing for the IIT show.. Was trying to harrier the plane down and then land it!
Had 9 good landings and finally on the 10th landing, the wheel got stuck and the plane skidded.. The landing by itself was perfect but since the wheel got bound, the plane skidded and the landing gear gave way..
Also broke a couple of spars on the belly and the prop was shattered!! Cowl and engine did not even feel the impact!!
Looking forward to repairing it and flying it today in IIT!
- Chan
Heres the same video I posted on a different thread.. Flying the 50cc inside a closed ground in IIT for the Aerofest demo in Shaastra 09!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVQ64-3pVHg
- Chan
Tremondous flying chan.. {:)} ...
Wish I was there to catch a glimpse in real :banghead: :banghead:
:thumbsup:
Thanks Atul!!
- Chan
Incredible flying by both of you guys... {:)} {:)}
More than the flying its very important to keep your nerves down.. and also not get carried away by the crowd cheers... Welldone!!
-Ismail
Thanks Ismail!!
- Chan
Lovely... {:)}
How come no low hovers/torque rolls ? 8-) ;D
First thing was it was pretty windy and second thing is I have not really mastered the model..Moreover it is the first time I am flying such a big model in IIT!!
- Chan
hi chan
this was at there small stadium right ? one has to take the road behind/front the library i think we will even pass the girls hostels ;D ?
anyway nice video thanks for posting
regards
sahil
I think this is the same stadium that you are referring to!! Though I dont know where the library is!! And yes.. i noticed the girls hostel ;)!!
- Chan
so i was right ;D ;)
Congrats Chan.
Your gasser looks great. What battery did you use for the RX finally ? A123 ? and did you use 2 packs ( one as a backup ) ?
I have everything ready now. just need to start the assembly. Maybe in the next month or so.
-Gaurav
Good show. The crowd knew the names of maneuvers ?? That's an enlightened crowd.
Couldn't help chuckling when I heard the professor's name :giggle:
Before this flight, there were various other where each manouvere was demonstrated and named.
(http://rotorsport.in/event/newspaper1.JPG)
subbu
wow cool looking heli,can anyone post some spec ?
Hi Guys,
Here I go shopping again!! Got tempted by Sanjeev's collection (RCDhamaka) and going in for another Yak 54 50cc (blue and white colour scheme).. It is an improved version and comes pre hinged and with the gas tank already mounted.. Looking at 2 evenings work on it... All setup to be stripped off my first Yak and redone here... Driving down to Bangalore tomorrow to pick it up :) :)!!
- Chan
Hi Guys,
Picked up the Yak54 50cc from Sanjeev as mentioned in my previous post. Link given below,
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_64&products_id=219
Lotsa goodies and features. Almost no work in the kit.
The first look inside the box was very very impressive. I could notice a whole lot of improvements over the previous version that RCD stocked. Some of them are,
1. Prehinged control surfaces
2. Gas tank plumbed and mounted
3. Rubber wheels
4. Carbon Fiber Tail assembly
5. Carbon Fiber reinforced wings
6. Carbon Fiber elevator tube
7. Extension tube from the tail inside the fuse for better aesthetics.
8. Fixed ring inside cowling (None of the cowl bolts are visible outside)
9. Scale canopy with decals for the instrumentation and black interiors
I started work on it yesterday and had a small roadblock with my servo horn. The kit comes with beautiful and also heavy duty anodized aluminum servo arms. This bolts on to the circular horn of the servo. I had the heavy duty Hitec circular arms and hence had to do a slight bit of drilling on the aluminum arms to make them fit.
Looking forward to resuming work on Monday..
- Chan
Good going :thumbsup:
Which engine, servos, special electronics (dual battery setup) etc ?
jets on the back burner ?
Quote from: anwar on March 12, 2010, 07:25:14 PM
Good going :thumbsup:
Which engine, servos, special electronics (dual battery setup) etc ?
The exact setup as my previous plane. Stripped everything off the old one and loading the new one. Specs are,
1. DA 50 gasoline engine with stock muffler (will upgrade to a Zimmerman canister)
2. Hitec 7955 TG for all control surfaces
3. Hitec 5485 for throttle
4. Electrodynamics Heavy Duty extensions
5. Electrodynamics Heavy Duty Switches
6. Hyperion 2s 2100 mAh LiFePo batteries for Rx and Ignition (no regulators)
7. Powerbox Smoke Pump (would be installed if I require nose weight)
8. Futaba 8 channel High Speed Rx (6008HS if i am not mistaken)
9. XOAR 22x8 wooden prop (white and red)
10. Dave Brown 3.5" Aluminum spinner
I think tats about all!!
Quote from: harikeshpk on March 12, 2010, 08:07:45 PM
jets on the back burner ?
Yeah for now the jets are taking backseat!! :) :) :)
- Chan
Quote from: chanvivek on October 06, 2009, 08:23:47 PM
Heres the same video I posted on a different thread.. Flying the 50cc inside a closed ground in IIT for the Aerofest demo in Shaastra 09!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVQ64-3pVHg
- Chan
This was a great fly, I dont think that anyone can perform Shakira dance with RC plane as Chan did...Really good...
Quote from: chanvivek on March 13, 2010, 07:25:20 AM
The exact setup as my previous plane. Stripped everything off the old one and loading the new one.
So the other one will lie bare ? Or did it sustain any damage in flying ?
Thanks for the complments Srihari..
@ Anwar, Yeah the other plane is lying bare now and there has been some interest on buying the plane. And there is absolutely no damage on the airframe. Lets see!!
- Chan
Hi guys,
Got to maiden my new 50cc Yak from RCDhamaka today... It flew like a charm!! Hovering was rock solid.. Had only 2 flights on it today.. A video and a detailed write up would follow next week!!
- Chan
Pics & videos
nice flying Mr. Chan and that too in just 2 years. nice four pointer. id love to see a vid with u doing a low hover..
looking forward to it ...
cheers
aaron