Hi Guys,
I am planning to put a gyro ( one for rudder and one for elevator) (Hobby King 401B) on a .46 size plane.
Link for further details on the Gyro:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=10113
Purpose :
To be able to learn 3D.
Just wanted to know if anyone has used this Gyro if yes please share your feedback.
Anyone else who has used a gyro on a Glow plane please share your thought.
I have not used a gyro ever but from what I know is thaty people do use them for 3D but on Rudder alone.
My brother plays with them from time to time, on rudder and elevator. Here are some points we have learnt from experience.
1. If you have extra channels, make the gain of the gyros (including whether they are active or not) controllable using a switch/knob on the radio. This allows you to handle any weird behavior during the very first set of test flights.
2. Have a pilot with very good thumbs do the first flight after fitting these, as they can affect the original flight characteristics significantly. On top of that, things like the gain could be wrong, all of which are better handled by someone who can "handle" such "situations".
3. Do let the gyros properly initialize. Allow a few seconds after the power to the gyros is turned on.
hey thanks anwar.... just a quick question is the gyro posted by me above suitable ?
Yes, that is a decent gyro, often used by my brother. If you find it not behaving well (regardless of gain settings), then do the "sponge mod".
Thanks Anwar, yes I will work on the sponge mod.... I will be capturing all details once I start on the Gyro work, so that all can be benifited.... cheers!
If you like to experiment with gyros, use the cheapest gyro. Check for Esky Gyro in ebay. I use Rate Gyros for planes.
Do the mod, only in case you see a drift. If u fix the gyro in the least vibrations area, then not required.
HK401 supports both rate and HH modes, settable by gain.
Thanks Vinay and defyingravity
I have just received HK401B from HK. Bought 2 pcs. I will be trying it on my Yak 54 (foamy-25 inch) first to stabalize the elevator and Rudder, and then will see if I can use them for 3D. I know it is an overkill on such a small model. But just experimenting and trying to get a feel ... will post my results soon.
Hi Divay,
Just saw a guy doing 3D, prop hang - with the Tx kept on the ground. Have a video also. He also did a knife edge and inverted flight without any input from the Tx.
Unfortunately the technology is very expensive - 799 Euro. It is a 3 axis gyro, like used in a flybarless Heli. He explained to me that for gyro's to work in fixed wings they need to monitor the air speed constantly. The amount of control surface deflection required for a certain correction depends upon your airspeed. The faster the plane the lesser the deflection.
I hope that your experiment with the gyro on fixed wings works. Just use the fastest servo you have on the gyro channel, the results hugely depend upon that.
Regards
Sandy Jain
Hey Saurabh, thanks for pressing the flesh, please do share your thoughts and observations, also pics or video of the gyro installation procedure and settings would be of gr8 help.
Hi Sandy,
Thank you for the info.... 799 Euro ... hmmm... hands off the remote...hmm... automatic plane control .. hmm
sounds like a lot of viewing fun... but I really want to do 3d on my own, I am just going with the Gyro so that I get some help... but eventually someday I am gonna rip the gyro off my plane as the hulk rips his shirt and say I am ready for some action ... I am sure the day is gonna come real soon... I have been working hard on it.... :)
I will keep the airspeed and deflection bit in mind... thankyou..
Hi Divay,
You may have seen this... It may help. :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYHaMQEfHW4
Hey Saurabh,
Thanks for the video, I hadn't seen this one, helped me get basics to what a gyro does... Thank you very much, I appreciate you taking the time out to send the video......
I have been practicing hovering on the Sim... so lets see what I can do...till then I am / was wondering if people could put a gyro on their lives.. to staighten things up ;)
Quote from: saurabhhsrivastavaa on September 24, 2010, 04:16:02 PM
I have just received HK401B from HK. Bought 2 pcs. I will be trying it on my Yak 54 (foamy-25 inch) first to stabalize the elevator and Rudder, and then will see if I can use them for 3D. I know it is an overkill on such a small model. But just experimenting and trying to get a feel ... will post my results soon.
Have you used gyro with aeroplane...? How was experience...?
Details of gyro installation would be appreciated.
Quote from: spitfire on November 03, 2010, 09:24:40 PM
Have you used gyro with aeroplane...? How was experience...?
Details of gyro installation would be appreciated.
Hi,
I had used 2 gyros on my 25 inch Yak 54 Foamy. One for pitch control and the other for yaw. Since on HK 401 you can control the gain through the tx, I had it on Channel 6. I had connected the gain of both the gyros to ch6 and using the flap switch (knob type) I could control the gain.
Actually incase of HK401B, (lets say your travel on CH 6 is from 0 to 100), then 0 to 50 sets the head lock mode and 50-100 corresponds to the gain.
So if you go anything below 50% the gyros switch into the head-lock mode and any input over 50% on the stick (Ch6) adjusts the gain.
Experience on the plane was quite noticable. At full gain, the model was quite stable in air, however because the motor 2805 was not able to provide ample pull, I could not test a prop hang for more than 5-6 seconds. Doing 3D with full gain was much easy. Also, the plane was too small and getting heavy on the wing loading because of the installation of gyros and battery and extra connectors..
I switched into the head lock only while landing and takeoff. once airborne, quickly switched over to normal mode.
What I feel in the end is : Definately, you will see a noticable difference with the gyros at full gain. I would recommend to use them on a bigger model and ensure that you have enough power to weight ratio to make full utilization of the potential of the gyros. HK401B is a pretty decent gyro and the new batch does not need any fix, as suggested...
Let me know if you need any further information.
Cheers !!!
Quote from: saurabhhsrivastavaa on November 03, 2010, 10:23:09 PM
So if you go anything below 50% the gyros switch into the head-lock mode and any input over 50% on the stick (Ch6) adjusts the gain.
Are you sure about this ? 0-49 is rate mode (ie, normal mode), and above 50 is heading hold, FWIK.
Thanks a lot Suarabh for your information...!
I just saw Turnigy TG380 aeroplane gyro http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6755 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6755)
I dindt get what it is. I want to use gyro in aeroplane. Is there any advantage of using this gyro or is there any difference in using gyro which is made for heli and for aeroplane...?
I think u can go ahead and use the HK 401 B.
Quote from: anwar on November 03, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
Are you sure about this ? 0-49 is rate mode (ie, normal mode), and above 50 is heading hold, FWIK.
Yes Anwar. I am 100% sure on this. you can infact look at the manual as well. will post it once i reach office...
The reason I say this is that I have used them quite extensively on the quad testing etc. Unless the gain is above 50, the light does not stay lit, and the manual on the HK401B is clear that it is in "heading hold" mode that the light stays lit.
The other point that I am confused about is that "amount" of gain exists whether it is heading hold or normal/rate mode. From your sentence above, it seems like gain is something that can be varied only above 50 (and below 50 there is no concept of gain). The Futaba GY401 (and the HK401 which is based on the Futaba one), has various rate mode gain values below 50, and various HH mode gains above 50.
I had checked the manual before I posted (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uploads/HK401B_manual.pdf), and it does not seem to say anything about this, other than that the light stay lit when in HH mode.
Yes, You are correct. The gain for rate mode (senstivity) works only from 50 - 100. However, the light gets lit at 50 and from 50 to 0, the HH mode (senstivity) gain is adjusted.
Is that what your understanding was ?
Nope, rate mode is less than 50, and HH is above 50.
For values above 50, the light stays lit and the various values from 50-100 are the various gains for HH mode.
Quote from: anwar on November 04, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Nope, rate mode is less than 50, and HH is above 50.
For values above 50, the light stays lit and the various values from 50-100 are the various gains for HH mode.
Am I not saying the same :headscratch:
Quote
and from 50 to 0, the HH mode (senstivity) gain is adjusted.
and Yeah .. I have my ch6 reversed... :) so its opposite for me ;D
Quote from: saurabhhsrivastavaa on November 04, 2010, 11:41:18 AM
Am I not saying the same :headscratch:
Only when one takes into account that you reversed the gyro gain channel (which is not the natural/default setup :) ).
Just want to make sure any newcomers do not get confused about where HH and rate modes are, in the default setup where the gain channel is not reversed !
agreed ;D ;D :bow:
Quote from: spitfire on November 04, 2010, 12:15:20 AM
Thanks a lot Suarabh for your information...!
I just saw Turnigy TG380 aeroplane gyro http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6755 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6755)
I dindt get what it is. I want to use gyro in aeroplane. Is there any advantage of using this gyro or is there any difference in using gyro which is made for heli and for aeroplane...?
Most of the airplane gyros that I have seen are 2 axis gyros. You can control a combination of yaw/pitch/roll depending upon the installation. This eliminates the need of installing 2 separate gyros. Primarily their basic function is the same as of any Heli gyro (except they may be missing Head Hold). See here -> http://www.keimod.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=337
The gyro mentioned by you is also ok. You can use it to stabalize your plane like cancelling the unwanted drift/yaw or maintaining the wings level (on aileron) You will need to use 1 gyro per axis. So if you need to stabalize all the 3 axis, you need 3 of them on your model.
The video that I have listed below may help you understand the basic functioning of a Gyro.
Hope this helps.
How can we find if the turnigy gyro i mentioned is single axis or two axis...?
There isnt any information about it on their website.
It is single axis only. The 2 axis will have 2 servo input leads and 2 servo output leads. They are expensive as well. :)
Thanks Saurabh...! :)
Hi Saurabh,
I have ordered a HK 401 for my TT Beaver 40. Planning to use it for the rudder as i find it little difficult to keep straight during takeoffs.
Please advice the initial gain setting for rate and HH mode.
Thanks
Arun
Wouldn't it a bit of rudder training on the sim work just the same ?
Will it help during take off ? Because from what I have seen, it creates more confusion. ??? Like Anwer Gi suggested its better to learn in the sim. I use to have the same problem as our official trainer (Mr. Aslam) in Nad Al Shiba field never teaches you to use rudder :). It took me few days training on the sim and high altitude training to get a feel and master how to use rudder in landing and Takeoff. I believe it's a must, when you have windy condition on the field. :thumbsup:
I had added ESKY gyros ( The cheapest you can get) to my Cessna recently. I had added gyros for roll and pitch. I just wanted to get a test the usage for my next fpv setup. I am not sure about take off, but landing was as simple as it could be. Just to test the gyros, after I inclined it to the landing path, I left all the controls and throttled down to zero, It just landed perfectly without any control there after.
This is my first airplane that too a tail dragger. I have finished 4 tanks thru it. The last 2 tanks were spent on aborted take offs. I am able to start off the take off straight but suddenly the plane veers to the left. My rudder control is fine as I am already flying helis.
I have practiced a lot on reflex sim and able to comfortably take off and land at one spot without any problem even in cross winds. But in reality it is very very different. (I mean the takeoffs)
I am pretty confident that I can easily takeoff a real trainer with tricyle gear with the amount of sim time already spend.
I have read about the difficulties of taking off a taildragger due to various factors like the CG of the td is behind the landing gear which makes the tail hunt on take offs and landings.
Too late and i dont want to crash this beauty and decided to put on a gyro for a shortwhile for landings and takeoffs.
Tail draggers whose behavior is that way are usually handled by restraining the model at full throttle, and then letting it go. This makes the take off run short, and gives more rudder authority to keep the plane in the direction the pilot wants (assuming the pilot can handle rudder, and any heli pilot should be able to handle rudder!).
Adding a gyro ALONE does not sound like it will solve your problems.
Anwar Ji,
Thanks for your quick input and appologise for using the quote option instead of reply in one of my post. As adviced by you I have gone thru the forum rules and will adhere to the same.
I have seen some videos where they have installed gyro on the rudder, the takeoffs were very straight even in crosswinds.
I am able to keep the model straight during taxi and speedups but the model veers left without warning. I have checked the controls and found ok.
Too much for a newbie without any pros around.
Thanks
Arun
The key is that YOU (and me) are one of the best gyros money CANNOT buy ;D If you are totally unable to keep the model going fairly straight, then the issue seems one of lack of rudder authority (probably due to lack of speed) or tail wheel setup.
Try opening the throttle gradually while taking off
also keep slight up elevator to give tailwheel steering authority
during initial run - keep about 40% expo on the rudder
to make smooth corrections
do not bang the throttle open.
I know this sounds contrary - but it does work
Quote from: deepikarun on February 01, 2011, 10:28:55 PM
Please advice the initial gain setting for rate and HH mode.
Hi Arun,
Sorry for the delayed response. I had these gyros on my foamies. (yaw and pitch) They performed well. infact pretty well. :)
I have experimented with gyros on rudder on nitro models as well. for the 401B, you may want to switch into the HH mode for initial take off. Since the gain can be adjusted via the Tx, you can well estimate the gain required during a few initial runs. (Taxing on the ground). Once airborne, you may switch over to Rate mode.
Another thought. If your plane veers to the left ON THE GROUND while building up speed for takeoff, you may want to check the alignment (toe and camber) of the front wheels. A left wheel which has some resistance (which is not very free) to rotate may also cause this.
Quote from: saikat on February 03, 2011, 08:58:40 AM
do not bang the throttle open.
I know this sounds contrary - but it does work
Two schools of thought :) One tries to give authority to the tail wheel, the other takes the tail wheel out of the picture !
The ground where we fly has lots of pillars on both sides of the runway and I am afraid that with such attitude of the plane it may crash against one of the pillar. Further the runway is not level, takeoffs are slightly uphill run.
Since it is my first takeoff, i dont want to take any chances.
I will be getting rid of the gyro after maybe 2 or 3 flights for sure.
Anwar bhai, you are right you and me are the best gyro money cant buy. But me gyro vibrates a lot during the takeoff.(My hands tremble). ;D
I am so desperate to fly my plane that I have stopped taking my heli to the field since.
If somebody using reflex, please advice the plane model which is very close to the real ones.
Thanks & Best Regards
Arun
Quote from: saurabhhsrivastavaa on February 03, 2011, 10:02:14 AMA left wheel which has some resistance (which is not very free) to rotate may also cause this.
I checked the wheel they are moving freely.
hello friends today i am desperately trying to setup gyros (hk401b) on elevator and aileron axis for my extra 300. I need help and have following questions.
- I have plugged in the gain wire of elevator gyro in gear channel on my dx6i. How do i setup the gyros in rate/hh mode?? I am able to set the gain by changing the travel adj. in rate mode only. Please help.
- Will I be able to change the gain of both the gyros in flight. If yes how?? I have 6 channel receiver.
Please friends provide me your inputs as soon as possible.
Figured it out for the first question. It can be done using gear/F Mode switch.
Will need your input for the 2nd question.