Dear All,
This Sunday somehow I mustered enough courage to solo the Sceudu 50 at our 40 acres farm house in Madurai. I have never flown any heli in the past. I comfortably hovered 3 tanks full. Thanks to REFLEX sim, believe me the real heli was very very close to the sim. Finally CRASHED her.
I am totally responsible for the crash as I noted that the receiver battery level was very low prior to the last flight. Somehow during the flight I completely forgot about the batttery and started forward flight and all of a sudden the battery gave away and dishoom... crash. Lucky that she escaped with minor injuries.
My carelessness is going to cost me 5000 to 7000 Rs. for the repair. But I am very happy that I could feel how the real heli is like.
Here is the video of my heli crashing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_IXxD8qZWg&feature=player_embedded
Thanks for Watching. I will be happy to have your comments please.
Best Regards
Arun
You crashed a Heli that was on a training Gear {:)} You are really fit to be my brother. From now on I will call you bro if you dont mind. ;D Coz I have done the same.
BTW Looks like the Heli lost total control of the tail. Also whats the the Configuration of the heli? Servos, engine, gyro, tail servo, governor etc?
And Welcome bro to RCI!
Good hovering. Nice video. and you got lucky nobody got hurt . Just be 100X more careful with these nitro helis ! Look forward to seeing more videos nad Welcome to the forum !
Ya, I second that, even a small 250/450 size helis can be EXTREMELY fatal if not careful or run out of luck! >:D
Wow! You are so lucky! With a 40 acre farmhouse - the 7000 Rupees repair bill for $1374 Hirobo Sceadu must have been a minor bother / irritation for you ;D. The majority of us in this forum can't dream of such princely opulence. If you can spend Rs.7000/- on a repair bill and pass it off as an experience - I wish I was in your shoes (:|~. (I guess the majority of our 1335 members would feel the same way!)
Anyway, happy flying in future and welcome to the forum. Keep posting such informative videos for us to learn from.
Cheers!
VC
which is why my signature says so ;) .... but Arun, dont loose heart.. keep it going... its (costly) lessons like these that teach us.
All the Best.
For the vast majority, sim and real life are significantly different. The "fear of crash costs" (and "some fear of safety") causes the flier to get nervous big time while flying the real thing. Add in other factors like "wind" and "less than perfect" models (as compared to the sim), and practically everyone feels that the "real thing is a whole another game" ! But there are exceptions like you, and there was another guy at our field who starting flying circuits and nose-in hovers on practically his first ever RC flight.
Regarding the crash, I am sure you have by now realized the importance of not taking shortcuts when it comes to battery power. It is easy to get carried away, but then safety is most important, and so are the cost and downtime induced by crashes.
Let us try to meet when you are in Kerala, we will try to arrange a flying session somewhere not too far from Thrissur town.
Quote from: vinay on August 10, 2010, 09:43:55 PM
Also whats the the Configuration of the heli? Servos, engine, gyro, tail servo, governor etc?
Hirobo Sceudu 50 HPM fully assembled by Mr. Irshad Anwar
OS50 Hyper Engine
JR ES539 Servos x 3
Futaba S3003 Servo x 1 for throttle
Gy401 with Futaba S9524 tail Servo
Sanyo Nicd Receiver Battery Pack 1700mah
Battery Indicator
JR Gold Switch
Exhaust Deflector
Remote Glow Plug Extension
Training Gear 50 Size
Header Tank with Metal Holder
No Governor Installed
Just wondering why many dont choose OS 55? :headscratch: Correct me if I am wrong.
Quote from: vinay on August 10, 2010, 09:43:55 PM
You crashed a Heli that was on a training Gear {:)} You are really fit to be my brother. From now on I will call you bro if you dont mind. ;D Coz I have done the same.
BTW Looks like the Heli lost total control of the tail. Also whats the the Configuration of the heli? Servos, engine, gyro, tail servo, governor etc?
And Welcome bro to RCI!
Dear Vinay,
Thanks for your comment bro.
Training gear is not an insurance against crash. When I started, I beleived I will never crash as I invested lot of sim time.
Here what went wrong is that in SIM you dont have to worry about the receiver battery or fuel. (I got used to.)
The tail control was lost due to dead receiver battery. When the battery dies the heli doesnt go to failsafe mode. My radio lost complete control & the heli crashed by itself, lucky that the training gear was on and it had reduced the impact of the crash. The sad part is that while going thru the heli prior to the last flight I noticed the onboard battery indicator showed that the battery level was very low, still I took a chance and decided to keep her on a low level hover, but once the heli spooled up again, the low battery warning vanished from my brain and as evident from the video I took her up all over the place.
I was also not lucky to have some experienced r/c pilot besides me as it was my first flight on a real r/c heli. Although I was not at all nervous, but short of advice.
So guys it was a costly lesson indeed. Never take any kind of chance while flying, always ensure 100% airworthiness of your equipment even before starting it.
I have ordered the replacement parts from Mr. Irshad and expect it in another 2-3 days.
Will keep you all updated.
Best Regards
Arun
Quote from: anwar on August 11, 2010, 04:27:55 AM
Let us try to meet when you are in Kerala, we will try to arrange a flying session somewhere not too far from Thrissur town.
Hi,
Thanks.
I will be going to Thodupuzha to attend a wedding on 22nd August and plan to stay in Thrissur on our way back for 2-3 days.
Please advice.
Thanks
Arun
Quote from: VC on August 11, 2010, 12:27:27 AM
Wow! You are so lucky! With a 40 acre farmhouse - the 7000 Rupees repair bill for $1374 Hirobo Sceadu must have been a minor bother / irritation for you ;D. The majority of us in this forum can't dream of such princely opulence. If you can spend Rs.7000/- on a repair bill and pass it off as an experience - I wish I was in your shoes (:|~. (I guess the majority of our 1335 members would feel the same way!)
Thanks for your feedback.
I spend almost 1 lac for the heli, radio & other accessories, when you are flying accidents are waiting to happen, and when it does you will have to spend money to repair it.
It is not an exception for the heli, what about people driving cars. I understand 7000 Rs. is not a small money for me also, I will have to sacrifice a lot of things to arrange that money.
It is all because of my love for the hobby and to be flying again.
Thanks
Arun
Hi All,
I am very glad to see so many replies in a short period of time.
Thank you all for watching my video and for your kind feedback.
Regards
Arun
Wish you had a Raptor... it is much easier to find parts for the same.
Hi All,
The repacement parts will reach me by the end of this week and hope to get her back in the air soon.
List of Parts Broken
Jr ES539 Servo x 1 - Broken Gear
Feathering Spindle - - Dont know whether it is bend. Still replacing as adviced in the manual after crash.
Main Shaft - Dont know whether it is bend. Still replacing as adviced in the manual after crash.
Tail Boom with Small Dents
Bent Flybar
Broken Main Blades (Stock Ones FRP)
The most expensive part is the main blades (Rs. 4500) :o for the Carbon Blades as the stock FRP is not available.
Remaining parts alltogether adds upto - 1700/-
This hobby is amazing, it took me 1 and half year to save money to buy this heli. Meanwhile I practiced a lot on REFLEX.
Will keep on updating.
Thanks
Arun
Quote from: anwar on August 11, 2010, 07:18:49 PM
Wish you had a Raptor... it is much easier to find parts for the same.
Mr. Irshad had called me up in the evening and confirmed that he has all parts in stock. Will be sending the same by courier in 2 days. He was very helpful and promised to guide me fix the heli.
Arun, just roll the feathering spindle/main shaft on a sheet of glass. your teapoy glass/mirror will do. if its bent, you will know. The most important thing that you may need to change is the damping rubber found around the feathering shaft (I dont know if ur heli has this, but most of them have it). Usually this also gets damaged and when you fly the heli with the same dampers, the blade wont track. That means when the heli is flying you will see 2 seperate disks for the main blades. this will cause vibrations.
Also you can use some cheap Fiber Glass / wooden baldes till you learn. CF blades are costly and strong, so when crashed it will spoil the heli by transfering power to the main rotor. Wooden blades usually break and prevent the heli from breaking apart (in many cases).
Hi Bro,
Thanks for the information. Very useful.
I will stick to the FRP blades only till I finish learning.
Yes the sceudu has a damper rubber in the blade holder around the feathering spindle - Will replace as adviced by you.
The shaft and spindles will check for bend as adviced, will purchase anyhow not costly (Rs.500).
Thanks once again for your valuable input.
Regards
Arun
Nice hovering for the first timer Arun!!
Just looking at the video, I thought you had your hands a bit too full for a first timer. It seemed that just before the crash, when the heli came to a nose-in position, over correction in the wrong direction was given ( my humble opinion). Try solid tail in hovering for atleast 10 tanks before doing even cyclic tests or any forward flights(with tail in, forget nose-in for now). By solid i mean the heli does not budge vertically or laterally.
I started helis 7-8 months back and am doing OK with stall turns, circuits, nose-in's etc on the trex600. I tried a G3 sim once and thought it was too unrealistic and would give a complete and wrong sense of over-confidence, so all i have learnt is without touching the sim. I have seen regular sim users crash a lot more as they tend to take short-cuts in the learning curve....and these are guys who do inverted easily on the sim but struggle to do fluid figures of 8's in real flying!!!
Just my 2 cents.
Well it depends to an extent on how you practise on the sim. Realistically practicing does help quite a bit.
On a G3/G4, try placing a couple of benches near the runway and try to land your heli in all directions on the top of the bench. thats what i do for practice ( at my level ) and it helps !
Quote from: gauravag on August 17, 2010, 03:01:30 PM
Well it depends to an extent on how you practise on the sim. Realistically practicing does help quite a bit.
On a G3/G4, try placing a couple of benches near the runway and try to land your heli in all directions on the top of the bench. thats what i do for practice ( at my level ) and it helps !
Agree, there are friends (good pilots) who swear by the sim. Different strokes for different folks i guess. I never thought they were any good. But, I have also heard from top 3D guys that it will be a must for advanced aerobatics and 3D for orientation from every possible angle.
Arun!
not sure if this makes sense, but why don't you install a Co-pilot on that heli?
I know, the accident was completely due to a different reason but there are 2 things in this world that will make a expensive heli like your to live longer and see another day and they are a Co-pilot costing around 4500 and a Quanum 2.4Ghz Telemetry System for monitoring your volt/amp/battery costing around 5000!
I guess that should be of great help!
Dorwin
Hi All,
Thanks for the response and all advices.
Believe me SIM is very useful. I find reflex to be very close to the real heli. It is how you setup the simulator to train yourself.
Before I could lay my hands on the real heli, I never knew if my sim practice is going to do any help with the real heli. And beleive me it was my first flight ever on a real heli that too without an experienced pilot. As I started and lifted the heli slightly I had to do some slight trimming myself and thats it. There is no EXPO set on the radio.
I hovered 2 and half tanks and thats when I noticed that the battery is about to give up. Somehow like a kid I thought I will do a baby hover, as I lifted her up again, the battery thing gone off my mind and thats it.
I can do nose in without any problem.
The real difference between a sim and heli is the fear factor. Fear of crash, repairs, spare parts, money etc. etc., which is not there while you are on a sim.
Fear alone will nullify all the time you spend on a sim. Somehow I am glad that I could overcome that.
I crashed because of my mistake(blunder), lucky that it didnt injure any body. I will be more careful in future.
When the battery goes, you have absolutely no control whatsoever.
The sceudu is a very stable heli. I dont think I will need a co-pilot. Regarding the battery monitor, I will be very very very careful.
I am indeed very happy that my sim helped me very much.
Thank you all once again for your valuable feedback.
Cheers
Arun
Quote from: deepikarun on August 17, 2010, 03:45:03 PM
I can do nose in without any problem.
The real difference between a sim and heli is the fear factor. Fear of crash, repairs, spare parts, money etc. etc., which is not there while you are on a sim.
Well in that case, I rest my case :)...all the best!!
Arun,
One more suggestion. Since you are learning by yourself, please follow the steps as on this website :
http://www.rchelicopterweb.com/LearningToFly/LearningToFly.htm
I think it really helps to go step by step. Doing Nose in hovers is seriously not recommended for you yet .
Good luck and keep us posted via more pictures/ videos !
Well, just to let you know, Mr. Irshad Anwar, one of the better RC heli pilots i've seen in india (and i've seen him cut grass with an inverted heli), cannot Nose-in hover his heli.....so as an earnest request to save your beautiful heli, Avoid it at this stage of your learning curve(even if you can do it like a champ on the Sim).
Quote from: lavneetgyani on August 17, 2010, 04:13:27 PM
Well, just to let you know, Mr. Irshad Anwar, one of the better RC heli pilots i've seen in india (and i've seen him cut grass with an inverted heli), cannot Nose-in hover his heli.....so as an earnest request to save your beautiful heli, Avoid it at this stage of your learning curve(even if you can do it like a champ on the Sim).
Thanks a lot for your advice and concern.
I will not attempt any maneouver that I am comfortable on the sim. I understand that the sim has helped me understand the basics. I need to start learning everything again on the real heli, here I have an advantage that my learning phase will be easy.
I am getting my parts soon and I take your sincere advice, will go slow from the beginning.
Warm Regards
Arun
Quote from: gauravag on August 17, 2010, 04:08:40 PM
Arun,
One more suggestion. Since you are learning by yourself, please follow the steps as on this website :
http://www.rchelicopterweb.com/LearningToFly/LearningToFly.htm
I think it really helps to go step by step. Doing Nose in hovers is seriously not recommended for you yet .
Good luck and keep us posted via more pictures/ videos !
Hi,
Thanks a lot for the link.
I will surely follow it step by step.
The parts will reach me soon and I hope to be in action soon.
Will keep posting more pictures and videos.
Thanks Once Again.
Arun
Hi All,
I forgot to mention one mistake of mine. In fact I was running in the new OS 50 Hyper Engine and as adviced the engine was running rich.
As it was running rich the power was also very low, I can push full throttle still the heli will not climb.
I was adviced only to hover the heli (1'-2') from ground until 3-4 tanks as the engine was running rich for breakin purpose.
I was just impatient. ;)
Thanks
Arun
Hi All,
The stock Hirobo FRP Blades are not available, the other option is Funkey Carbon Blades - Rs. 4800/-
Rotor has the FRP blades @ Rs. 2950/- Please advice which one should I go for.
The JR ES 539 Servo on the collective is broken. I wanna change it please advice a good economical servo (My heli is not a CCPM one).
Thanks
Arun
Photos after the Crash.
Absolutely not even a single scratch on the heli except for the broken blades, bend flybar & the boom with slight dents.
We have the rotortech FRP blades in stock. Check the out the price of Silver Blade 605mm ;)
You mean you finally put a product list on the RotorZone site ? :)
It has been up for about a year here (http://rotorzone.com/compass_retail_price.html).
Great... did not notice the link. Would be better if you make the link a bit more visible/accessible (something like a menu item which says "Product/Parts List" or "Price List" ?)
Quote from: RotorZone on August 18, 2010, 12:22:59 PM
It has been up for about a year here (http://rotorzone.com/compass_retail_price.html).
That link takes me to a blank page.
Quote from: anwar on August 18, 2010, 12:25:59 PM
Great... did not notice the link. Would be better if you make the link a bit more visible/accessible (something like a menu item which says "Product/Parts List" or "Price List" ?)
You are right, I had quickly put this up last time this discussion came up. Some description (especially for the items that comes in 2pack or 3pack) and pictures were in the plans that keeps getting postponed.
Quote from: deepikarun on August 18, 2010, 12:27:02 PM
That link takes me to a blank page.
Strange, works for me from different machines. Anwar can see it too I guess.
Quote from: RotorZone on August 18, 2010, 01:37:32 PM
Strange, works for me from different machines. Anwar can see it too I guess.
Still I am able to see a blank page only.
Send PM with info you are looking for.
Let me know the IE version you are using. I'll see if I can replicate the issue. Could it be M$ vs ooffice output ???
Got the blank page under IE8 on Win7. But works fine with Chrome on Win7. Works fine under both Chrome and Safari on Mac too. Did not test with Firefox (which seems to be on the decline anyways?).
The document has some embedded styling elements... did not investigate further.
it opens up in firefox!
Blank in Opera (10.6).. Its got something to do with the formatting since all the data is there when viewing the source code..
This may help!!!! :P
Hi All,
The Parts have been despatched from Kolkatta and hope to receive by tomorrow.
I have also ordered Hitec HS-635 Servo from Rotor Chennai for the collective pitch. - Please advice on the same as I am hesitant to continue with the JR ES539 on the collective.
I have got JR ES539x2 on the cyclics for the time being. Once hovering is completed, I will upgrade the same with Hitec HS 7966x3
Will update the repair process with pictures here.
Thanks
Arun
Cool, would like to see lots of pics!
Here are the Parts that arrived from Kolkatta.
Some more
Only the Servo, Main Mast, Feathering Spindle, Flybar rod, Pitch Rod Link & Blades need to be replaced.
Rest of the items are spares for future use.
I tried to remove blade holder from the feathering spindle which is held by a hex nut. It seems to be very very tight.
How do I remove it ?
Thanks
Arun
Quote from: deepikarun on August 31, 2010, 11:54:23 AM
I have also ordered Hitec HS-635 Servo from Rotor Chennai for the collective pitch. - Please advice on the same as I am hesitant to continue with the JR ES539 on the collective.
The torque numbers are similar between these two, the significant difference is the Karbonite gears on the Hitec one.
Quote from: deepikarun on September 01, 2010, 02:10:50 PM
I tried to remove blade holder from the feathering spindle which is held by a hex nut. It seems to be very very tight.
How do I remove it ?
Don't have specific Sceadu head experience, but all feathering shafts need to be held from both sides for removing the nuts. You will need to two wrenches (hex drivers) of the right size.
Hi Anwar Ji,
Thanks for your help.
Indeed the feathering shaft is to be removed with the help of 2 hex drivers.
I happened to call Mr. Irshad to find out why the nut is very tight. He said that I need to apply a little heat with solder iron to remove the nut as it is tightened with locktite. (He adviced me to use Blue Locktite only).
Now please clarify whether blue locktite needs heat to remove them & should I use red or blue locktite.
Thanks
Arun
Blue loctite should come out with a small amount of force usually. If not, heat helps.
I use blue loctite alone for pretty much everything. It is only extremely rarely that I use red loctite (for some parts on the head of full metal head helis, which I know will pretty much never be removed).
Anwar, Rajesh told me that blue anabond is much stronger than blue loctite. I havent used blue loctite, but anabond blue is really strong. I decided that on 450 heli, I use blue anabond only on FS and jesus bolt, rest would be 222 purple loctite. I got the HK blue loctite, need to test it. 8-)
The trick with loctite is using the bare minimum quantity. It should be enough to cover just the last 2 to 3 threads, and no more. Most times, I apply the smallest bit to one screw, and most often I roll the threads of another screw around the one with the loctite, which leaves the right quantity on both !
If you have done your loctite correctly, you can hear the distinct "pop" sound when you try to unscrew it later on (after curing, which takes a few hours).
Hi All,
I have finshed repairing my heli and about to test fly.
The Hirobo Sceudu Heli parts are available online with singahobby, Singapore.
I happened to buy some parts from them, their service is excellent. I have also got a cross member for reinforcing the frame, where the boom support goes.
After lots of hard work I am happy that I could set things up by myself.
I will be posting the test fly results alongwith videos.
Thanks
Arun
Good to know its fixed, All the Best! And do spend a lot of time on sim ;)
Hi Vinay,
Thanks a lot.
I forgot how to insert the video here.
Thanks
Arun
Just paste the Youtube link (like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxxxxxxx)
Thanks a lot Anwar Ji.
Here is the video of the first start after the crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs7bGHgFkMQ&feature=channel
Please comment on the Carbon Blades.
Had to stop the engine as the heli was wobbling.
Thanks for watching.
Arun
It was due to loose blades in the grip.
Here is how I fixed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XeWFgawYxs&feature=channel
Thanks
Arun
After the crash I understand the pain in rebuilding and thats why I decided to go slow.
Initially trimmed the controls and finished 1 tank hovering.
I was a little afraid of parts flying in all direction, thats why I decided not to stay or have anybody right behind the heli. Thank GOD things went very smooth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTaW6xghr6A&feature=channel
Please advice/comment on the video.
Thanks a lot once again and I will keep posting more videos and pics soon.
Arun
Behind the heli is the right place to stay... but at some safe distance ! Great to see the bird fly again. At one point, it seemed to rock from nose to tail, which indicates the need for a little higher throttle curve in that throttle position.
Carbon blades may be premature for initial hovering, nothing wrong with using them though ! Should make the heli more stable, at the risk of crash costs for the same (but hopefully not!) :)
Thanks a lot for your valuable feedback.
My throttle/ Pitch curve is as follows:-
Throttle Pitch
L 0 -2.5
2 23 -2.5
3 38 0
4 50 +5.5
H 100 +9
Idle up1
Throttle Pitch
L 100 -9
2 55 -5.5
3 48 0
4 57 +5.5
H 100 +9
Please advice whether the above is fine on an OS50sx hyper engine.
Good to see you back in the air.
Quick comment/observation. When starting the engine, You should firmly hold the rotor grips . This would prevent any accidental high-speed starts ( which sometimes can occur even at idle throttle ) !
Nice Hovering! {:)} Its good to know you have decided to do it step by step :)
Hi Gaurav,
Thanks for your advice. I will do that in future.
Hi Vinay,
Thanks.
Hi Anwar Ji,
Please advice if the throttle/pitch curve is ok.
Throttle+Pitch combination really depends on each heli, on how the head is setup. So there is no "one size fits all" setup, even for the exact same heli model.
Basically, if the heli rocks from nose to tail (nose goes up, tail goes down, then tail goes up and nose comes down), it means that you are trying to lift off without enough rpm on the main blades. Just adjust the throttle curve slightly higher *at the position* where this rocking happens. Do it only enough to prevent any such rocking.
Hi All,
I have replaced all the 3 swash servos from JR 539 to DS610.
(The servos doesnt make any noise while switched on except for the one on the collective pitch which does sometimes make a little noise.) Is that Normal ?
Replaced the throttle servo Futaba S3004 (Not Recommended for Nitro Heli) with Hitec HS-645 Karbonite Gear one.
Will fly the heli this Sunday.
Thank You All for your valuable assistance in helping me reach so far in this hobby.
Best Regards
Arun
Digital servos are known to buzz, and the Align ones are known to buzz a bit louder than many others. Just make sure they are not binding.
"Binding" refers to movement of the servo arm being physically restricted when some physical part hits the extremity of its possible travel range.
Looking forward to the next set of flight videos !
Hi Anwar Ji,
Thanks.
Can you please let me know what is the ideal(Max) pitch for aileron and elevator.
Thanks
Arun
The max deflection ranges for cyclics are usually listed in the manual, go with those. It depends on the particular model.
Let me know if you need help with hunting the values down for this particular model (we should be able to find PDF manuals for this model).
Quote from: anwar on October 27, 2010, 12:02:21 PM
The max deflection ranges for cyclics are usually listed in the manual, go with those. It depends on the particular model.
Let me know if you need help with hunting the values down for this particular model (we should be able to find PDF manuals for this model).
Anwarji,
I have the manual with me, but it is not mentioned anywhere.
I will be very greatful if you can let me have some idea regarding it or is it possible the if one goes about setting the length of the linkages as per manual so that the required deflection is automatically achieved.
Thanks
Arun
I will try to find the details.
For a quick setup, you can check :
Take the collective/swash to the bottom first (usually full negative pitch, except on some models like TT ones), and then apply full aileron and see if there is any mechanical binding all the way to the servo arms. Repeat the same for elevator. If there is any binding or if you see parts hitting each other in a non-natural way, you have to handle that by reducing the cyclic/collective angles.
Then repeat the above for both elevator and aileron, but this time do it with the collective/swash at the top (usually full positive pitch position).
Getting the link lengths correct will help you get pretty close, but there are radio setup items also which can affect cyclic ranges.