iam a noob,and still a noob.And when it comes to crashing these inexpensive rtf's,you always have to do a replacement.I made a grave mistake by getting into a 450 heli without even having owned an rc heli.I switched to planes,which is a much more begginer's choice of getting into rc flying.Above all,you have several helping hands in this forum to provide all the support to a noob like me.gr8 going guys!

@ v5hemak ... happen to read the thread now... and i do recall meeting you in the store earlier... pls PM me your number and i will call you... and FYI and for the benefit for others here this is NOT a Hiller series heli... Hiller does not come in RTF versions (only kits and supercombo are available)

Sujju

Hello All. Very sorry for the late reply - was out of Bangalore - work related. I am unable to post pics for some reason...I resized the images too but not sure why the pics are not uploading on the portal. Anyway, here are the updates on what has been going on with my heli:

@muradshak - no haven't applied loctite on plastic..lol...have CA which I use for my cars and of course I dont expect Align quality..dude..come on... :-P
@rajathv8 - sorry for the 4mm error (typo I guess)...these are 2mm bullet connectors. There was no polarity issue with the receiver, the servo just fumed out. I did change the servo without any changes on the receiver..only removed the connector between the gyro and servo...it's woking perfectly to this day.
@Sujju - I clearly asked Dilip for a Hiller kit when I came to the store - and then enquired if there was an RTF version. He showed me this heli almost instantly. Also, the website sells this RTF version on the same web page as the other HILLER kits..if this RTF is not HILLER this should be mentioned..you cannot expect anyone to just imagine that this is not a HILLER brand..right? This is a bit of a mis-representation on your website...don't you think? I have on 3 occasions asked Dilip and Suresh for your number..they refused. I also sent about 3 emails to both helpdesk email ids with pics on what was wrong, and one was a feedback on Dilip and Suresh...but no reply till today. Dilip called me 10 mins later to fight and argue but not to fix my issues.  I feel I was encouraged to buy this RTF version probably because it was the last one remaining in your store and no one was buying it...my trust in rcbazaar was taken for granted by Dilip and this I feel is a form of plain cheating on his part. He could have at least educated me and recommended that I buy the actual HILLER kit, a few thousands more would really not have mattered to me....I have already spent that extra money on buying spares from hobbyking. In any case my phone number is 8095067865. I received an email just yesterday from rcbazaar stating falsely that they delivered a part on 25th Dec 2012 (the part did not arrive till 27th Dec 2012 and I had to go to First Flight office and pick it up).

Guys, no one expects Align or Blade quality from this product but did not expect it to be this bad either. I mean, getting the product newly, after RC bazaar Dilip recommended it. I was not 'forced' to buy this particular kit, but Dilip told me it's just the same as the others and they have only one piece left and is a good kit to begin with...so I guess I got carried away and picked it up. Did not really care for the charger as I have had a programmable charger for years. The Tx and Rx that come with this are crap and I upgraded these the very next day - to the FlySky TH9X and 8ch receiver - no issues with these so far.

The update now is that I have got a lot of parts from hobbyking including a white backlight upgrade for the TH9X. Linkage rod set has been changed and now blade pitch and track have been set satisfactorily. Had my first small hover (lasted about 4-5 mins) in a nearby park before a crowd started gathering and I had to pack up. I've been having some decent hover times since then on the terrace of my house.

The next thing I want to do is make the heli look a bit cleaner - it has wires peeping out and I want to clean it up. Any ideas on how to house the ESC within the frame itself? Cannot go the TREX way because the chasis on my heli is not spacious enough. Also I have ordered the TREX 450 PRO's tail servo mount and want to install the servo here instead of on the tail boom. The chasis on my heli does not allow this also, but I'm trying to explore some mod options. I have ordered the extra long tail linkage rod as well. Any ideas anyone? Thank you.

@Shannon - Though this poduct cost me a little over 10k, the amount till today I've spent on replacements and upgrades have raised it to about 18k...almost double...another 7k more (25k) will get me an Align TREX 450 PLUS! (shipping included)   

Hi i know u would have got a trex 450 plus by putting in a little more money but the electronics that u get with the kit are not very great either ...the gyro align has iss rubbish the only people using it is the factory pilots from align they have no option ,the servos arnt that gr8 ....happy to know that u got your frst few hovers ......whatever u have purchased from hobbyking hope u have rrplaced all the screws as the quality is very low of those screws ...and there is no way u can mount a 450 pro servo holder in a v2 infact the tail mount is a better option  ...and for the wiring part u can use zipties to keep things neat but the frame is mostly naked so wires will show up also esc can be mounted inside the frame in the front ,centre ,under the frame 

Quote from: v5hemak on January 15, 2013, 11:41:48 PM
Also, the website sells this RTF version on the same web page as the other HILLER kits..if this RTF is not HILLER this should be mentioned..you cannot expect anyone to just imagine that this is not a HILLER brand..right? This is a bit of a mis-representation on your website...don't you think?

v5hemak... few things for you to note... the website sells a lot of things other than hiller... the heli page is not a dedicated page to hiller, so how did you take it for granted that this was a hiller ...  on the same RTF heli page you also have an angry bird and another 450ccpm green heli... how come you dint take this up hiller??? its basic reading that needed to be done.. dont you think??? ... however this is not the point that i need to look at now... if you are unhappy with the product deliver it back to the store and the money will get refunded to you... end of matter..

Why is it that nowadays new members are joining RcIndia only to post complaints? Is someone out there telling them that
"If you have a complaint, then join rcindia and post it there" . Earlier it used to be "If you have a doubt or want to learn something new, then join rcindia". No offense to anybody, but i'm very disappointed with the way things are going on here. The first post of many new members are complaints or warnings or I was cheated !!!
Please dont litter this precious place with all this nonsense and fights, keep them to yourself or sort them out with the concerned person. This place is not meant for all this crap!  Really! sorry for being so harsh!

Well said jatayu 

@Jatayu - It's funny that you think someone has paid me to post this here....c'mon dude...grow up. The reason I posted this is to let others know that they need to be careful. "CRAP" as you say is when you pay lots and are left in the dirt and then you pay lots more to fix it, and the shop you bought it from doesn't even reciprocate. And what the hell do you mean by no offense? It's like saying - "You're a JACK ASS - No OFFENSE"
@Shannon - you're so wrong about the tail servo mount...a member of helifreak has already done it on his HK450V2 and he will be sending me some pics on the same soon.
@RcBazaar - It is extremely easy to blame the customer on matters of perception without actually examinining what your involvement in this is. When I came to the store why couldn't you educate me on the product? Why were you "recommending" that I buy this?  I couldn't even set the pitch and track the blades without getting new parts man....how can a damn 450 heli fly without these checks? Sure it sounds wonderful to return this heli but what about all the spares I've bought for this heli due to its inferior quality? And all the time I've spent working on it? Who will refund the extra spares money and the wasteful time I've spent? Not to mention excessive costs on petrol everytime I've come to the store? Your rude tone in your post itself suggests how crappy your customer centricity is....first off you have misled me so that you can make a sale and get money...on top of that you are talking all this BS.....I'm guessing it's you Dilip....I still don't have a decent apology from you for the way you spoke to me the other day....and you have the nerve to yap...

Guys, I'm sorry if my bitterness towards rcbazaar is bothering you ....I realise most of you are loyal to them and love the store....and you all "believe" they are the best. Unfortunately, I went to their store only after checking their reviews on this group and how highly all of you recommended this store......and my very first experience with them ended in disaster. I hope you are all treated the right way by these ppl in the future as well. I think it's best I do not have any posts on this group or even return here ever again - cos it's really humiliating to read posts from ppl like Helliguy, Jatayu and especially rcbazaar who think they have the biggest brains but in fact are extremely distant from reality. How long do you think you can keep up this false image rcbazaar?

All the Best to All of You...Safe Landings...

Interesting thread... if there is anything to be learnt from this, is that NO store should stock ultra cheap 450 size helis. Period.

They are always bought by newbies, and are destined for disaster and customer service issues. No experienced flyer would ever buy them (as he already knows better), and it does really take an experienced person to deal with the quality issues and get them to fly right.

I hope all stores take this bit seriously.

anwar... i don't need to give any justifications here to anyone but this "ultra cheap heli" has been sold and used by lots, for more than a year and a half without much issues from the day the store opened...  infact these heli had been got only on repeated requests from customers who wanted a ready to fly and the store team will never try not to push these as one does not get to know the how to build a heli, etc up etc with an RTF... and yes we also have the MSH protos for anyone to buy a great quality heli.

v5hemak ... my bad that i did not write my name in the earlier post... this is sujju and not dilip.
i did check this issues with the team at the store and the first thing that was stated was .. you were rude and slammed the phone twice when a contact was made to talk and resolve this issue from our email was sent to them... and yes i believe my team and hats off to them what they have achieved till now single handedly in a year and a half of operations.
- we are not a training institute to educate, on the other hand we definitely give the pros and cons of the models and the team did tell you to do a proper background and research.
- and no the team did not recommend this to you and where as you wanted to pick up ready to fly heli and not get involved in the build process and wanted to just fly it as you dint have the time to build a heli also i believe the team did tell you that you need to do a proper check and loctite each part before even taking off and with sim practice
our customers love the store only because of the products and the service that is provided be it from us or from any other store loyalty comes with a certain history of dealing...

sujju

Quote from: RcBazaar on January 16, 2013, 02:32:44 PM
anwar... i don't need to give any justifications here to anyone but this "ultra cheap heli" has been sold and used by lots, for more than a year and a half without much issues from the day the store opened...  infact these heli had been got only on repeated requests from customers who wanted a ready to fly and the store team will never try not to push these as one does not get to know the how to build a heli, etc up etc with an RTF... and yes we also have the MSH protos for anyone to buy a great quality heli.

I am not sure anyone asked for justifications   But whatever I stated remains facts.  People may have bought these models from you and others.  And within days, they start upgrading. Even if it is screws or tail servo holder or whatever, I don't think these are "satisfied" customers.  They may not be bitching in the open about it. There is untold pain behind these, especially if they are beginners.

I am saying this because I started with an original Align Trex 450 v1.  And I felt even those had big problems, when I saw their own later models, which fixed many problems in later iterations.  I have also experienced the HK450 phenomenon first hand, and the pain associated with it (I have posted about this earlier here).  Something like the Hiller 450 series at least should be the starting point, and if possible, there should be a build service for a price (which is the norm in other countries).  The wrong choice was offering customers this heli, instead of a Hiller with a build service.  Protos is a a BMW, while people are looking for a Suzuki (Hiller), not an Ambassador (ultra cheap 450, like HK450)... and Align is the Toyota.  I hope my analogy is clear.

Carrying an HK450 type of heli in a store that wants to do its best in terms of customer service is asking for trouble in India, where there are not many organized fields and heli experts.  Anyone can differ with this assessment, but I strongly believe that the perceived lower price and accessibility are just fads, which do not hold up more than a few days (sometime only hours).

And my assessment has little do with the particular experience of the member who started this thread.  I see this only as just like the person who bought the clone Baja in Delhi, and then realized what he got.  People make suboptimal choices, and then some how tend to make themselves believe that it is the fault of others.  A lot has been said by this member not only about RcBazaar, but also about how this forum is at fault and he is "never posting here again". As if it is the fault of this forum that he picked a heli that no one here really recommended/discussed (all the discussions here are pretty much about the Hiller ones). 

Whether here or on Facebook, people will always highlight the bad much more than the good.  That is just human nature, and something we need to live with.

definitely agree where you are coming from and the point you are honing... like you i have had my set of issues with align and even rave and i myself have stated the hiller screws issues and any other issue in the build vids openly... and as much as i like to have service center unit (i myself have seen in this west and in uae) the business does not justify this at this point of time (not that the team does not help fixing the heli if there is issues and myself i build helis for beginners when iam there in India) ... and frankly speaking iam not even keen to charge our customers for this service but this requires manpower, time and space which we do not have at this juncture...

v5hemak... if you are reading this.. let me assure you we have nothing against you... what i have realized is that more than the product its the unnecessary rage and shouts that aggravate the situation and turns things ugly... "if" you still want to talk to us send me a short mail on

sujju

hi anwar sir

this is the first time i am addressing you. first of all being rude is not at all needed, so either that customer at rcbazaar is himself at fault or not, he should be cool. anyway i will also say that both dilip and suresh are good to talk to. before rcbazaar i used to buy stuff from jackhobbies and then shifted to rotor sport. whereas the arttech stuff from jack used to be very costly but i started from there. then i had shifted to rotor and the tt stuff was good similar to align, but my main point is that before rcbazaar we had to wait a long time for funds to accumulate and then came rcbazaar with the hiller series so affordable, so for indians rcbazaar is really like a god

that customer should have seen himself that what he is buying and now there is no need to cry about it. rcbazaar is good and someone saying something otherwise will not change our opinion.

Quote from: vishal on January 16, 2013, 04:29:58 PM
so for indians rcbazaar is really like a god

Vishal,  i think you should talk about yourself, not for all Indians because, as RCB would agree, the statement is heavily overstated.

I tend to go with

Quote from: anwar on January 16, 2013, 01:30:39 PM
NO store should stock ultra cheap 450 size helis. Period. They are always bought by newbies, and are destined for disaster and customer service issues.

Quote from: anwar on January 16, 2013, 02:53:26 PM
I don't think these are "satisfied" customers.  They may not be bitching in the open about it. There is untold pain behind these, ...

people will always highlight the bad much more than the good.  That is just human nature, and something we need to live with.

Sujju Bhai

I urge you to look into aspects Hemanth (v5hemak) as brought out, your staff are the face of your store, i guess follow up, customer support has been lacking, i have, faced embarrassment not once but twice, and i have flagged those issues with you. even till date the esc and batt issue is not resolved. in spite of you giving instructions to your staff.

There is some merit in what Hemanth (I guess) has brought out, once a complaint is lodged except you no one repeat no one in your store redresses the issue or sees it to its logical conclusion.

PS
Sujju Bhai
I still remain your faithful customer. i flagged them so that some remedial actions can be taken, my buying pattern should give you some indication

Thanks Gusty,
Will surely look into this and also sending you a PM now. And yes we surely agree that we are not God nor do we want to get there ( too many responsibilities plus the blame  )

Sujju

Quote from: v5hemak on January 16, 2013, 12:41:57 PM
"You're a JACK ASS - No OFFENSE"

This is exactly what i meant, but i didnt have to resort to such language. I am glad you took it this way.

There are several types of all products available to a buyer. I feel it a matter of personal responsibility to educate oneself before making a purchase - be it RC or any other product.

RCB stocks several types of helis. If one has educated oneself, it is easy to understand the consequences of a purchase. If one does not have the time for said education, any RC purchase can be risky irrespective of the source or service from place of purchase.

If this (450 RTF) purchase was made after having prior experience with helis, i fail to see how a store can be blamed.

Of late there have been a few uneducated purchases leading to lengthy posts. Its a sad situation.
 

hi sujju
hope u r well n gud
i have started flying and loving it thanx for your guide and support
I am flying and practicing to hover but there are certain issues one is the tail always drifts to the right i tried to stablize that using trim but it shows no effect on the tail i have watched the videos of hiller helis done by people and there helis are very stable .someone told me that u need to adjust the swashhfr on ur tx but i didnt  .
the other issue is i am not able to setup the controls on my simulator on aerofly as well as on g4.earlier it was working and i used to practice.
since i am using windows7 i went to devices and printers in the control panel to check the functioning of my th9x .and tried to change the settings i was confused what are x,y,z axis in my tx.... .i have checked a lot of videos but didnt got any for such issue. .
i also talked to dilip on phone but i think he didnt understood the issue.it's not his fault.after all this i were the last option for me

Hi Imran
Dial in more HH in your tx.
Do not use subtrims on rudder.
See to it that there is absolutely no binding on the tail and should be smooth.
If you are using a hi speed analog rudder servo play around with the delay on the gyro.

Sujju

Hey Imran I think u are flying in rate mode and not heading hold mode... Firstly disconnect ur tail push rod from servo and move it by had to see if it is moving freely if it is not check y is it happening, if any of the screws are too tight on tail or the push rod guide are not in a straight line n stuff... Once u checked for this then there are videos on gy520 and avionic x5 showing u how to off set the tail to get a stable hover in flight.... Both these should solve ur problem and the drift should stop as i had never applied trim just followed these methods... Also keep increasing ur tail gain till ur tail starts wagging when u notice wag reduce 3% and ur set.. 

I did forget to mention to set a proper mechanical gain for 450 and 500 helis please place the ball on the rudder servo 9mm from centre nothing more or less.... That is the perfect position for 450and 500 helis