Thanks, Its really good. Just what  I needed.

Getting better with nose in flights now. Its amazing how fast our brains train. Just last week i was getting nervous with the heli facing me, and today i can hover for more than a minute.  Nose in hover is still tense for me, and i guess some more practice would ease off the tension. I think when we are strained we tend to make more mistakes.

Also the eyes need to get used to the way the heli looks from various angles while hovering. When in a nose-in hover the heli looks even more tilted to the right. I guess thats because of the perspective.

Another nice article. Worth reading for all people starting with electric helis

http://www.swashplate.co.uk/ehbg-v17/ehbg_index.html

Though i am flying the heli nearly everyday, I am still not too happy/confident about how the tail is holding. I look out to Anwar/Rajesh and all others to try and help me out here. I will try to describe the problems and experience in a detailed way to help debug this out.

Problem : Every time i take off, i feel that there is a tendency for the nose to turn right, though slowly. When I give 2 clicks of trim it holds better. Of course the next time i initialize i would need to reset this trim in order for the gyro to center itself.
Then while flying sometimes i see the heli wanting to turn itself again ( again very slowly ) and i need to compensate with the rudder input to hold.
Overall i feel that the tail does not hold rock solid, as i expect.

Facts : Using TG6100 Gyro with Ace C0915 sevo ( not digital )
Using the Gyro Sensitivity on the Futaba 10C. Tried various gain settings 10,30,50,70
Note that in one of my earlier crashes, the flybar had hit the gyro, though it was not physically damaged, the foam had peeled of the back, and i had glued it back.

I have the servo arm perpendicular in rate mode, and have tweaked the linkage length/servo position so that I can hold a hover without any rudder input.

Also tried various headspeeds on the hover, but same experience

Also i take due precautions to keep the heli steady on ground till the gyro initialized, and take off from the same place ( and heading )  where i initialize,

Options i see :
- Gyro damaged ( just a possibility )
- Servo damaged ( could this be ? )
- Need to change the position of linkage ball on servo arm. The limit pot on the gyro is set to 50 ( this is to avoid the pitch slider touch the ends in rate mode ) .
- Something that I am not aware of yet... Please enlighten !

Thanks !

was it holding before crash?

Well, was kind of like this only, maybe perhaps a little better.

Well ok, i am loving this heli and now being able to do  figure 8s and circles and side + mode in orientation for a long as i want. I can take off nose in and land anywhere in any orientation.
My next steps are to take on rolls and loops.
However the pitch curve i a using is linear between -2 and +10 and the throttle is 0,80,80,80,100 I think i should change and use the idle up setting.
Should i use the 2 modes ? or just use one mode with -10 to +10 pitch curve with hovering on 3/4th throttle ?
I know there are two schools of thought here. but would like to do whatever is good in the long run.

Thanks !

Single/same linear curve in all flight modes, including throttle hold.  How can you be sure ?  Ask anyone who has been flying helis seriously for a while

BTW, your normal mode throttle curve is sort of weird.  You certainly do not need 80% throttle at the 25% stick position

Yesterday while doing some fast forward flights, i observed a few things. WOuld be great if those who are experienced here could confirm if I am correct here :
1. The controls of the heli behave differently when in a hover/slow flight versus that in fast flight.
2. There is a critical point at which this control changes. something like stall speed. If the heli flies faster than this speed, then the controls behave like those of airplane, but if the heli is slow, then the controls behave like that as in hover.
3. Slow flight/ hover is very difficult. If a heli is moving forward slowly and a left cyclic is given the heli starts moving forward as well as to the left, laterally. This does not happen in fast flights, where if the heli is moving forward, and left input given, the heli banks and moves in a circle, rather than laterally.
4. In slow flight, getting the heli at a height, or away is dangerous, as the pilot can easily get disoriented, since the heli can move on any direction. In fast forward flight, its much more predictable can thus can be taken high and far.
5. Getting the heli into fast flight needs a couple of circuits and also to kill the speed and get back into hover needs space,


Let me know if the above observations are correct.

Guess no one was interested in my observations !
I searched around and found that this is related to Translational lift that the heli gets when in fast forward flight.
Havent been able to grasp it all, but would be good to know more on this.
-Gaurav

Not really   I was building a Trex 600ESP for someone we all know   And this is a subject that requires some thought !

First of all, I see that it is commendable that you are taking it slow and steady, something like what they say about the Friench eat their food (cherishng each bite/moment ?).  Me personally rushed it when I was learning (mind you that I learned on helis first), so the goal was to get to 3D fast.  I did make sure that I put in time to get my orientations well (for example doing figure 8s both ways, and then doing them in backwards flight both ways).  But I did not stop and think about stall, hover, forward flight differences etc, like the way you are doing it.  I guess coming from an airplane background helps you compare.

Overall, two things stand out about heli flying.  One is that rudder assistance is pretty much needed in all turns. Second is that forward flight is driven more by slight forward elevator in helis, where it is mostly driven by throttle in airplanes.  I guess the second point is what prompted your above observations. 

The lesson I learned over all is that if you spend time doing maneuvers "forwards upright, backwards upright, forwards inverted and backwards inverted", then you are set.  Most people train themselves to do figure eights in one direction first, and many get stuck there.  Finally they move on to doing them in the opposite direction also.  But very few people try to do them backwards.  And that is the KEY !  And if you do them inverted also, you qualify as a true flier !

Helis are easier in general for people to get disoriented because of the low profile (how much the airplane wings help with orientation can only be appreciated when one starts flying helis).  If you get into the habit of watching for the disc made by the main blades, that is another milestone in heli flying.

Regarding the controls being different in hovering versus fast forward flights, I believe a similar comparison can be made in airplane world also... in hovering a plane versus forward flight of a plane.

And as they always say, "one of the tougher maneuvers in airplane flying is to hover them; but that is where heli flying starts!".  I guess this puts the challenges of flying helis in perspective.

You can get a heli in fast forward flight with enough pitch, engine/throttle response and the right amount of forward elevator.  I never felt that it takes multiple circuits to get into fast flights.  Like anything, there is a period of slowness and acceleration, and the capabilities of the heli and the pilot determines how soon fast flight is achieved.  And you can make a heli in fast forward flight stop instantaneously with a lot of backwards elevator (pull elevator stick down to get the nose up) ALONG WITH a quick punch and release of positive pitch.

Thanks Anwar.

I am prone to getting disoriented. The rotor disc in not that visible, perhaps because I am using wooden blades. Any tips/ideas to make this more visible ? Right now, i seem to be looking at the landing skids, and the 4 training gear balls seem to be adding to my problems. Though they make the heli visible they make it confusing to judge the attitude or where the heli is facing.

Looking for some ideas here to aid visibility/orientation.

Helis cause disorientation to everyone, because of the lack of the whole wing structure.  The rotor discs are generally barely visible to everyone, it is something you pick up with time/practice (at least that was my experience).  Some people put reflective stickers on them, but I found them causing more issues.

I have been looking over the net to see what people have to say for my kind of experiences and it seems that since I am coing fro airplanes, i tend to pull back on the stick when I panic/nervous, this causes the heli to loose forward speed  I need to learn to give down cyclic to keep the forward speed.
Some have suggested i give a few clicks of forward trim to assist learning, though not sure if thats a good idea.
Anyways, I hope to keep practising, at least every alternate day and hopefully I will get better at this ! .

Also, i think i might fly my Raptor more than mini Titan. Raptor is much more stable and visible, so might help me in learning.

Quote from: gauravag on February 22, 2010, 08:46:21 AM

What head speeds are you using? It is looking very stable!! My HK 450 does not fly like that, The head speed I am using is like 2700s to 2800s and its a little punchy, becomes stable as the battery becomes weak. I need to reduce the head speed. But its more stable than the sim TREX 450 (3200 RPM).

Never calculated headspeed. If i lower the headspeed a bit no difference. if i lower too much it wobbles.
If i increase the whine increases but no change in stability. But since i have woodies on it, do not want to fly at too high headspeeds
Do post us your video of your 450 flying.

Sorry I was flying alone. No videos.