Dear All I have recently purchased a mini titan ARF kit but have not been able to connect the electrical connections. I am enclosing some pics where I am facing problem, like how to connect the gyro to the receiver etc. I am not sure why I have got three more servos (blue) and the li-po battery (green). I am not able to connect the electrical settings owing to the above problems. Would be grateful if anyone could provide me with a detailed electrical connections of the gyro to the receiver, and the connections from the battery, speed control etc. More over I have not received a charger for the heli battery is it to be brought separately. None of the electrical settings diagram has been provided in the manual I received in the ARF kit. Thanks in advance for all the help. ??? ??? ???
MORE PICS OF MINI TITAN
If this is a Thunder Tiger Mini Titan, then you can fine many build threads on the online forums (you can find many by googling for "Mini Titan Build"). Here is one : http://runryder.com/helicopter/t308261p1/
You will need 3 servos for the swash and one for the tail. Any others are extra.
For a typical 6 channel ccpm heli, the connections are like this :
1. The brushless motor and ESC are connected by 3 wires.
2. The Lipo battery and ESC are connected by 2 wires (typically one red and one black).
3. One of the two swash servos placed on opposite sides of the frame goes to channel 1 in the reciever. This servo is called aileron servo.
4. The other of the two swash servos is called the pitch servo, and it is connected to channel 6.
5. The third swash servo (sort of in the middle) is called the elevator servo, and it is connected to channel 2 in the receiver.
6. The ESC is connected to channel 3.
7. The gyro connection with 3 wires (like a typical servo wire) is connected to the rudder channel, which is channel 4.
8. If the gyro supports remote gain setting from the radio, then there is a single wire connection which goes from the gyro to channel 5 on the Futaba/Hitec receiver.
9. The tail servo is connected to the gyro.
Thank you Mr.Anwar for your kind suggestion to solvinf my problem. I have one more question though. The Mini titan i got does not have the li-po charger. Will it be Ok if i use my e-sky belt cp charger to charge the titan battery. i am enclosing the images depicting the wattage etc. the black one is for the belt cp and the ace one is i what got with mini titan.thanking u in advance for your help. {:)}
Since they are both 3cell lipos, you should be able to use the same charger for both. It is not clear from the pictures, but I assume the balance connectors are similar (otherwise you have to get a convertor cable). As always, I would strongly recommend against non-balance charging.
Dear Mr. Anwar, Regarding the mini titan I received the following message from rcuniverse.org "Your having problem connecting your electronics because your trying to run a 6 channel helicopter with a 4 channel radio." Is it so.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8852850
Coz I brought the item from rotor.co.in as they have described in the brochure
Yes, you never mentioned what radio you are using; and yes, you will need a 6 channel radio (or 5 at least) to use the Mini Titan.
You have what looks from the pictures like a 6 channel receiver, obviously you will need a radio that supports the same ! :o
You can use a basic 4ch tx with that mini titan. The TG6100 unit you have is a CCPM mixer and gyro. So you don't need a radio capable of swash mixing. I have not been able to locate a manual for tg6100 even on TT website. There are two extra wires left after the usual control and I'm not sure what they are for. However if you have a tx that is capable of 120deg CCPM mixing it is preferable to use the it and use the tg6100 only as a gyro.
I stand corrected :'( I missed the fact that it is not a normal gyro that you are using, it is also a CCPM mixer and gyro together.
The connections I explained above are for normal CCPM setup, where the CCPM mixing is done in the radio (instead of the a special unit like the TG6100M).
Thank you Rajesh for spotting that !
Here is the connection setup that I believe you will need.
On the TG6100M :
1. Plug in the two oppositely placed servos (that push the swash plate) into the AIL(L) and AIL(R) channels. You may need to reverse them if you find they are moving in the opposite direction.
2. Plus in the 3rd swash servo (the one that is kind of in the middle) to the ELEV channel.
3. Plug in the rudder servo to the RUDD channel.
4. Plug in the connection from the ESC to the THRO channel.
From the TG6100M to the HITEC receiver :
1. Plug in the first connection (with 3 wires black+red+white) to the AIL channel, which is CH1 in the receiver.
2. Plug in the red single wire ELEV to CH2 in the receiver.
3. Plug in the orange single wire to the THRO channel, which is CH3.
4. Plug in the yellow single wire RUDD to CH4.
5. Ignore the other two connections. The green single wire is for remote gain adjustment, which you cannot do using a 4 channel TX (this is usually plugged into channel 5). Not sure what the blue one is for.
You may need to reverse the rudder (tail control) and pitch (whether the swash plate goes up or down) using the DIP switches on the TG6100M, if you find they are not moving in the right directions.
NOTE: I had edited this post since I posted it the first time, so please ignore the contents of any email notifications of the same.
Here is a pic for Spektrum/JR. Futaba/Hitec uses a different channel assignment for first three channels. Anwar has already listed the connections for Futaba/Hitec.
The blue and green wires were causing some unexpected servo motion. It works fine with them disconnected. But since I was not able to locate a manual, I decided against using the mixer in CCPM to be safe. The mixing in radio allows better control of throttle and pitch curves anyway.
Dear Guys thanks a ton for bth of ur valuable advices. I am attaching the portion i am finished with (frame and Tail) so would be grateful if u could show me some images (sorry for all the trouble) on how to connect the electricals. like
1) I have no idea how to connect the receiver and where to connect it.
2) I cant find a place a place to place the receiver battery.
3) I don't know how to connect the Esc to the battery.
4) Is there need to connect the servos that came with the radio (blue in color) or are they spares only.
So please take some time out for this good for nothing guy and assist diagramitically. Have attached some pics depicting my problem.regards and thanks
more pics {:)}
Prem -
Either we are missing something, or you are not reading/following the posts in this thread correctly :(
1) I mentioned before that you need 3 servos for the swash and one for the tail. I am not sure why you are asking if the rest of the servos are spares, even after this was clarified earlier.
2) My last post gives you exact directions on how to wire the TG6100M unit and the HITEC receiver, not sure why you are not attempting to do that.
3) There is no need for separate receiver batteries on these helis (typically). The main battery (Lipo) is connected to the ESC, and the ESC powers the receiver. If there is no "servo-like" connection on the ESC, then you will need to use the separate receiver battery, but most vendors avoid that to save weight and placement problems (like the question you are having now).
4) Where to attach the receiver and TG6100M to the frame is somewhat a matter of personal choice. You can look up the pictures in other forums for where people have placed their electronics. You need to make sure the TG6100M is placed in the flat manner on the frame (i.e, do not hang it side ways, since it is also a gyro, and it needs to be placed in the axis of rotation).
For example, see how one guy has placed his gyro unit in this picture.
(http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81366&d=1234240959)
Some people place the receiver in the space below the gyro, so that it is far away from the ESC and motor, to reduce electrical interference. Others just hang it on the side of the heli, again away from the ESC and motor as much as possible.
BTW, I am not putting pressure on you to do something you are not comfortable with, it is always better to double check if you are in doubt :) I have had a friend who was new to electric helis and did not do the right setup, he ended up with 10 stitches on his first Trex 450 (which is similar to the Mini-Titan) ! I would strongly recommend that you do the initial testing of servo movement with the motor disconnected or the main blades removed.
http://www.rotor.co.in/show-detail.asp?prodid={036B4FC8-B2E6-4527-857E-3393EA6396F7}&pn=1
Also, if you bought this combo from Rotor Chennai, then you should have received only 4 servos (they may have supplied extra, because it is easy to strip the plastic gears in these when there is a crash).
Note that the combo has no separate receiver battery included, and the BLC-40 ESC does have a built-in BEC with power connection, so you should not need a separate receiver battery. If they did give you any receiver battery, it must have come as a combo on the TX radio itself, not as a part of what is needed to build the heli itself.
And finally, after some tricky searching, found the manual for the TG6100M ! The only problem, it is in French ;D http://www.as-modelisme.com/images/files/Notice%20AQ0843.pdf
But you can see the connection diagram for Futaba/Hitec on the left side of the first page (the JR one is on the right side). I have pulled it out and attached as an image.
Forget the two connections that go from Ch5 and Ch6 on the TG6100M to the GEAR and AUX1 channels on the receiver, as you are using a 4 channel radio.
Dear Mr.Anwar , thank you for ur valuable comments, i have mangaed to connect the heli but when i push the trottle lever up the swash plates just moves a bit even though the motor starts to run, guess i have to changge the servo reverse switches right? will keep u posted on my development and hoping for more of ur valuable comments.Warm Regards
When you increase throttle, the swash should move up (with all 3 swash servos working together), thereby inreasing the pitch angle of the blades (more pitch, more air thrown downwards, heli lifts up). If the swash is moving in the opposite direction (ie, it is throwing air upwards), then you should reverse pitch using the DIP switches on the TG6100M unit.
Dear Mr. Anwar, when i push the throttle stick the motor just whirrs and the wings move in the downward direction, i have tried reversing the servos in the radio but still the same thing happens kindly assist. connection depicting images would be of great assistance. thank you ???
Prem - Again, please read my post carefully.
The first thing to check is if all 3 servos are working together (they all move up or down together when you increase the throttle). If not, you may have to reverse individual servos in the radio so that they move together.
Once you have that figured out, the next thing to check for yourself if the "angle of the blades" are changing in such a way that more air is being pushed downwards (or post a video of the swash movement) as you increase throttle. If the swash is moving in the opposite direction (pushing air up instead of down), change direction of the "pitch" control DIP switch on the TG6100M (not in the radio).
I don't have Mini Titan, and your setup uses a very special gyro unit, so there is no way I can help you with connection photos. But I feel you have more than enough information already in this thread to get all connections done properly.
Dear Mr. Anwar, I also have two numbers of 6 channel radios that came with my Walkera and Art Tech falcon heli. Would be grateful if u could tell me what things are required to be brought by me to enable me to use my mini titan heli with these radios. I have enclosed an image of my 6 channel walkera radio. Thanking u in advance for your precious advice. ??? ???
Updated: This radio does look like it is capable of doing CCPM mixing (based on the DIP switch options at the back); but if your wiring is right, the 4 channel you have will work just like the 6 channel. Rather than figuring out the wiring for this radio and using the TG6100M for just gyro purposes, I would recommend you follow the earlier posts, do your wiring, and start posting pictures of your current setup. It is not a full computer radio to justify the effort needed.
Troubleshooting such issues is typically a case of breaking the issue down into basics. For example, if you think your swash is not moving right, remove the connections to the motor, and you can post a video of what happens when you move the throttle stick. If you do not have video capability, post two pictures of the swash plate, one with the throttle stick at minimum position and one with it on the maximum position. With out such feedback, people will not be able to help you remotely :(
thanks . will proceed as advised
Dear Mr. Anwar, Got the connections going but am facing some problems like when i press the trottle only the motor purrs and the swash plates move down. i am enclosing some still images of the completed heli after connection. i did not have to do anything with the servos as the servos had come installed when i received it from rotor.co.in. I have also uploaded the video files at http://www.flickr.com/photos/39694014@N06/?savedsettings=3647572655#photo3647572655 for you to have a look and see where i am going wrong.warm regards
Prem, I don't mean to discourage you, but can you take pictures like the picture 2 above ? That is the only picture where we can actually see the connections and details. I guess you are using some kind of mobile phone camera to take pictures, but please do so under a table lamp (or bed lamp), so that we can see what is going on. The current pictures are taken in a dark area, and from too far.
One thing I do see is that the connections on the receiver are probably wrong. If the "white" wire of the aileron is on the outside of the 3 wire set, then the other connections should also have their signal wires on the same location as the white wire. Looks like they are currently connected so that the red, orange and yellow wires on channels 2, 3 and 4 are all against the black wire. The white wire on channel 1 is the signal one; so the red, orange and yellow should be on the same side (you have to reverse how they are connected). So connect the channel 1 cable with 3 wires in reverse.The white wire should be towards the center of the receiver from what I can see, so that it will be on the same side as the other 3 single wire signal cables (red, orange, yellow).
Dear Mr. Anwar, Please find enclosed some images of the completed mini titan with all the connection settings as advised by you. I am still facing the same old problem of throttle as for the left right up and down movement the swash plate moves in the right direction but when I start giving the throttle the motor runs without the blades running and the swash moves in downward motion. Have tried to include video to make my problem clear to you.
images
Quote from: premvijay on June 23, 2009, 02:47:22 AM
when I start giving the throttle the motor runs without the blades running and the swash moves in downward motion.
The swash direction is correct. It moves down for increasing pitch. If your motor and main gear is turning but blades are not, then the motor direction is reversed. Interchange two of the motor to ESC leads.
Yep, interchange any two of the three wires going from the ESC to the motor.
Also, make sure your servo arms are connected to the servos in such a way that the swash plate is not hitting either the top or the bottom of its range of motion.
thank u both. will implement and let u know. regards how much would the futaba cost
Futaba cost ? Cost of what ?
Dear Mr. Anwar, As advised i exchanged the wires running from the ESC to motor without any desired result. Even after exchanging the wires the same continued, when throttling up the swash moves down. And the light on the servo has become red instead of green. kindly advise further.
Prem - I am sorry to say this, but I feel you have not read RotorZone's post earlier. For this heli (and some other helis like the TT Raptor), the swash moving down with throttle is normal ! Do not worry about it.
Make sure your lipo battery is charged, since all your experiments may have depleted it. If the light was green earlier and now it is red, it could be due to low battery. Since I do not have an English manual for the TG6100M, I am not sure what the red light means.
Now the only problem remaining seems to be that of the blades not spinning with the motor. Please confirm the following :
Case 1) When you increase throttle, does the main gears (the big white wheel) also spin ? If yes, then the problem is surely with motor spinning in the opposite direction. Try reversing two of the 3 wires that goes from the ESC to motor. If the first pair did not work, try another set of two wires.
Case 2) It the main gears do not spin at all when you give throttle (only the motor spins), that means you have not setup the motor correctly. Make sure you have connected the pinion gears to the motor shaft, and those gears are correctly touching the main gears. If you are able to rotate the main gears by hand (with the heli powered off), then you should be able to see the motor shaft also turning.
Let us know CLEARLY which of the above cases is true.
Just saw your other post. If you are getting a Futaba radio to fix your Mini-Titan, I would say you are wasting money. The problem you are facing has to be fixed, regardless of whatever radio you are using. If you are getting a radio for the long term, that is always a good idea.
Quote from: premvijay on June 24, 2009, 03:08:42 AM
Dear Mr. Anwar, As advised i exchanged the wires running from the ESC to motor without any desired result. Even after exchanging the wires the same continued, when throttling up the swash moves down. And the light on the servo has become red instead of green. kindly advise further.
First of all I have not seen any servo with LED so far. If you meant the LED on tg6100, the red light mean HH mode and green means rate mode. This LED should not have changed when you changed the motor leads.
As Anwar said, there has to be clear communication of what exactly you are doing. It is obvious here that you are either not following instructions here exactly or doing something else which you are not communicating. You are not alone, this is a common problem with remote debugging. If you have a web cam, schedule a online chat session where the person helping you can actually see what is going on.
It is too late for you, but this advice is for any new beginners. Heli setup needs a good bit of knowledge and some eqiupment. If you do not have local help to set it up, it is a good idea to buy a heli that is ready to fly, either new or used. Even I picked up a used heli first though I already had a kit with me for this reason. And when I had any doubts building my kit, all had to do was look at how it was done in the other heli.
Prem - Any updates from yesterday ?
Dear Mr.Anwar, I received a mail from rotor.co.in regarding my problem. they had provided a link to some website from where i downloaded and printed the manual in detail and saw to it that everything complied to as directed in the website. But even then the same problem is still persisting.
the content and link which i got from rotor.co.in for ur information only
QuoteDear Sir, Thank you for your mail. And sorry to know that you are having problem with your Mini Titan. We have many customers who have start of with the similar system as yours and are flying quite comfortably.
Forums are good source of information and discussions but they are not always right. nevertheless this info is provided by the manufacturer.http://www.rotorhobby.com/minititan_infomation.html please read this link and follow up every action., included reverse the function of TX.
Transmitter manual
Turn to the back of the transmitter and open the battery cover You will find four switch after your open the battery cover. Reverse the channel 2 ( indicated at REV) Left the rest to normal position. ( indicated at NOR)
Prem - Can you please at least respond to our specific query mentioned in http://www.rcindia.org/helis/mini-titan-problem/msg2433/#msg2433 ? Looks like our earnest efforts to help are falling on deaf ears :(
If you have followed all of their instructions including channel 2 reversal in the radio, and your swash is moving OK, the problem seems to be with how the motor is mounted. But without your co-operation in terms of following instructions and communicating back properly when further information is requested, this will get nowhere.
You seem to be more interested in procuring additional hardware, while it is pretty clear that we have not established any fault with the existing ones !
Sorry Mr.Anwar, Was not able to do much R & D as i am out of station. Will be home by Sunday and flood you with my silly queries ???
It is no big deal, except that you could have mentioned this much earlier !
We don't consider any questions as silly, and most of us enjoy helping one another. There are many days when I go to field and barely get to do one flight myself, the rest of time is spent troubleshooting, fixing and testing etc for others. It is only fair to expect the same level of earnestness from the other side too !
Let us know when you are back near your heli again.
sure boss dont worry i am here to bother u for a long time : ) take care and goodnight Mr.Anwar and thanks for taking all the trouble to help me out. i had shot a fresh video of my problem and would be grateful if u could provide me ur email id so i can forward it to u as the file is 5.4 MB. I have the video in my laptop, so if u give me ur email id i will attach it right now.
Please email to the address on the bottom left (green colored footer) of any page on this site.
Got the file, but no mp4 programs can open it. I already have most of the codec packs (like CCCP), and none of them are able to identify the file type. Even programs that are specially built to identify codecs (like http://www.headbands.com/gspot/) are unable to identify the file type.
Please convert to some standard format like divx or avi and resend.
Dear Mr. Anwar, have hosted the videos in the following locations they are in dvd format, mpeg and avi format. Regards
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/114761/MINI-TITAN-WMV--wmv.htm
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/114762/MINI-TITAN-MPEG--mpg.html
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/114769/MINI-TITAN-flv.html
Thank you for the video. It is clear that the swash movement is OK. There is one problem with the swash though, its initial position itself is as if you had pulled the elevator backwards (towards you). The swash should be perfectly parallel to the tail boom (or the ground, if you keep it flat on the ground). Currently the front of the swash (toward the front of the heli) is tilted is upwards and the back of the swash (which is towards the tail of the heli) is tilted downwards. Please fix this by reconnecting the 3 servo arms to the right slot on the servo arm sprocket.
The big problem is that I cannot see any of the gears (the big white wheels) turning when you give throttle (although the swash moves down, which is expected). This means that you still need to answer the question I asked in http://www.rcindia.org/helis/mini-titan-problem/msg2433/#msg2433 . Unless you get the main gear to turn with the motor (which means the pinion gear should be connected to the motor's shaft, and the pinion gear should touch the main gear so that when the motor turns, the main gear also turns), we cannot make any progress. So please confirm by answering my post above directly, point-by-point.
Also, in the Mini-Titan manual (if you don't have it, you can download from http://www.modelflight.com.au/manuals/pdf/thunder_tiger/mini_titan_e325_manual.pdf), look at page 27. It clearly shows how the motor pinion is touching the main gear (they have a blowout picture named "Note 2" in that page). Make sure you have followed those steps.
Dear Mr.Anwar, Will check all and let u know by evening.
Dear Mr.Anwar, Tried your suggestion and indeed it was because of the NON POSTIONING OF THE MOTOR :P i am not putting the blame on others but because of the Heli Arriving in ARF condition i had missed checking the motor placement. anyway now the main blade spins but but the :o tail rotor is not spinning, i have already checked the connections leading to the tail rotor like the rear gear being in symmetry with the tail belt. One solved another arises.sorry to be boring u so much because of my inexperience {:)}
Good to see we are making progress :)
If the main gear and the main blade are rotating in the right direction (when you look down to the blades from the top of the heli, the main blades should rotate in clockwise direction), then the first thing you should look at is whether the smaller gear next to the main gear is also rotating.
If the small gear is also rotating, just follow the various pieces of hardware that transmit the motion to the tail blades (like the belt etc), and see which piece is not causing the next piece to not move correctly.
If the small gear is not rotating, then you may have put the one way bearing inside the main gear upside down.
Will chek and get back to you Mr.Anwar. Regards
Dear Mr.Anwar, Like advised i checked the gears for the tail rotor and they were turning when the throttle was being given but the rotors did not move, so i looked and saw that the belt was a little loose to rectify this i pushed the tail section a bit back so that the belt would tighten on the gear. After this change the tail rotor gear was rotating but the belt itself was not moving and also the pulley system in the tail holding the belt was not moving. again i tightened the belt so that the belt was sitting properly in the tail rotor gear section. This time the tail rotor gear did not turn at all. Is there need for me to remove the tail rotor section and have a look. (but the belt is strecthed enough that it sits perfectly in the tail rotor gear.i am confused as always and am relying on u to pull me up again like u have been doing so in the past.regards. ( i have a sneaky feeling that u must be getting irritated with my queries.) ???
At this point, it is best you follow pages 17 through 26 in the manual posted earlier, and go through the mechanical setup of the tail one more time. There is not much we can do remotely, and it looks like a simple mechanical problem.
One thing is for sure. You should be able to get the tail to rotate when you rotate the main gear by hand in one of the two directions (with the heli fully powered off). If the tail does not rotate when you rotate the main gear manually (either clockwise or anti-clockwise), then that means the mechanical setup is wrong. You have to just take it one step at a time and figure out how the motion is transferred from one stage (or rotating part) to the next.
Basically, the motion goes something like this. The motor rotates the main gear. The main gear rotates the tail gear (smaller of the two white wheels) because of the one-way bearing. There is a rotating part with teeth on the top and bottom that transfers the rotation from the tail gear to one side of the belt. The other end of the belt transfers the rotation to the tail rotor. You can manually rotate the main gear and check where the motion is not being transferred.
Most likely the problem is placement and gap between parts so that one set of gear teeth is not properly touching the next set of gear teeth. Just like the teeth of pinion gears on the motor shaft touching the main gear teeth, we need to make sure the teeth of the various gears touch the teeth of the next part.
will try to open the tail section and let u know
Did you figure it out, or are you still travelling ?
Dear Mr. Anwar, Thank god u responded i thought i had u pissed with me for asking so many questions. yes i opened up the tail section. The belt looked to be loose as it was dangling (enclosing pics) so i tried moving the tail section a bit backward. After this change the tail rotor rotated fine only when the tail section was on the verge of falling off from the tail boom, i could not screw it there as there was no space left to screw. Does it mean that i would have to cut the belt (but that would be idiocy on my part as i assume the joint belt would not take the load) kindly suggest a remedy like is there any screw that helps in tightening the belt. I am also sending another pic where i have inserted the questions in the pic.hope u would be able to figure out the problem if any. ???
Ok, let us take them one by one.
1) Your belt feels loose on the back side most probably because you do not have it correctly placed on the rotating pulley/gears on the other/front side. I have attached an image, so make sure the belt is correctly placed on the pulley. Once that is done, you will not find so much slack in the belt, and you should be able to fix the tail rotor properly with enough tension in the belt.
2) If you asked why the rudder servo is not moving in the last picture, you have to confirm whether you tried moving the rudder stick, which is the same stick as the throttle in mode 2 flying. So if you move the throttle stick left and right, and the rudder servo does not move, you have to check your connections again (re-read this thread for the connection details !)
BTW, if you are unable to check just basic build issues yourself by following the instruction manual, I would strongly suggest that you do not attempt to fly the heli on your own. Again, I do not mean to discourage you, but you seem to be struggling with the basics, and an expensive crash is not going to be fun :(
See if you can get any sort of help nearby, or wait until you can get some elsewhere.
Dear Mr. Anwar, thanks again for the advise. i have tried moving the rudder stick but nothing is happening so i guess its back to the checking of the connection. Regarding the tension of the belt rotor had the tail assembly already fitted when i received the heli. But as advised by u i will open up the things and try to locate the problem.warm regards
Dear Mr. Anwar, Have disassambled the entire tail and will be redoing the connections step by step. will keep u informed.
Did you figure it out yet ? :)
Dear Mr. Anwar, Sorry for not being able to answer earlier, i was out of gangtok for the last 4 days, wife wants to renovate house so had to go and see and get some things, anyway thats my problem.. i have managed to connect all the things together and now the main rotor as well as the tail rotor is working fine now only thing left is for me to stick the stickers on the canopy and fit the training gear. will keep u updated of any fatalities or problems if any. thank you for taking all the time out to help me out.
Great ! Glad to hear that the mechanical stuff is OK now.
Just make sure the swash plate is level/flat before you try to hover. And keep us posted with photos/videos.
will do for sure boss.
dear mr anwar finally got everything connected even the training kit, but when i tried to fly it everything worked proper main blades, tail blades everything i mean. it made a lot of noise and the rotors also rotated in the corect direction but the heli simply did not leave the ground even on fool throttle. will try to send u a video by tomo.regards
your pitch seems to be reversed !
which means when you increase throttle (for mini titan) - the swash plate should move downwards & upwards when you decrease throttle. please check these responses and get back.
You mentioned earlier in the thread that the swash moves down with increasing throttle. Is that still the case after reconnecting everything ? If not, you need to fix that. If it is going up with increasing throttle, you can reverse it using the appropriate switch on the TG1000M unit.
If the swash is moving down (in the correct direction), it may not be moving down enough. Please try repositioning the servo arms of the 3 swash servos so that they move down enough to give you positive pitch on the blades.
dear mr anwar sorry for bothering u again and again and again, i have checked every thing including charge of battery but the heli simply does not lift off even at med or max throttle. i am enclosing some pics of the swash which are levelled. kindly advise
dear mr second chance, thank you for taking the time out to assist me but the pitch is in the correct direction , upon increase of throttle the swash plates moves downward and upwards while decrease of throttle.
can you give us your pitch angle readings please.
dear mr.second chance it is 8 degrees. However i am not sure i know how to read the pitch angles. I have a thunder tiger presion pitch guage (pic enclosed) but could not find anywhere in the net on how to use it. ???
you could visit www.raptortechnique.com and you should find all the info on using the pitch guage and the likes.
as regards the 8 degrees, it makes no sense till you have gathered how to take the readings on the guage.
as regards the pitch guage in the pic, as far as i know its meant for 30 size and above helis. you need to purchase a guage for mini helis. there is one manufactured by align and can be found on the rotor website.
finally, i would suggest after going thru all your posts that it would be advisable if you hook yourself with another experienced heli flyer and learn the basics else you my friend will be wasting a lot of money on these toys ! :D
regards
Quote from: premvijay on July 24, 2009, 01:15:45 AM
However i am not sure i know how to read the pitch angles. I have a thunder tiger presion pitch guage (pic enclosed) but could not find anywhere in the net on how to use it. ???
Please see the video here to see how a pitch guage is used :
http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/propeller-what-do-we-understand/msg3157/#msg3157
so won't that that pitch guage for 30 size heli do service on a 450 size heli like a mini titan or a trex450?can't think of any reason,why not.except for the blade length wts the difference?.
It is only a question of the gap that holds the blade. So the issue is that of the "width" of the blade.
If it is too wide a gap (suitable for larger blades), then the smaller blade will have some "play", which will make it difficult to do accurate measurements.
well.thats sad.im heading Prem's way i guess. ;D.hv already ordered one for my MT E325. :(.thinking of brighter side,i'll keep it for future use on bigger helis. :)
BTW, there is no rule that a 30 size one does not work for the smaller ones. I use an Align one which works from the smallest all the way to 90 size.
http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=335471
So some work for multiple sizes, and some don't.
The problem I have faced is the weight of the pitch gauges. As Anwar said, the weight coupled with the play makes it very difficult to get accurate readings.
guys.pls help me set up my newly acquired MT E325.Ive set it up using a JR RS77 seven Ch rx.Tx-JR PCM 9XII.Therefore have used the gyro as dedicated one with eccpm mixing done on the Tx.As for sim practice,I fly decently on RF G4.Took note of all the points from this thread also.was a gr8 help.Thx anwar,Rotorzone and ofcourse Prem.
set up the pitch and throttle curves as per manual for beginners.actually,couldnt set the throttle curve right,as the illustrated one in the manual had a 5 pt throttle curve and my Tx has 7 pts.I've left it as linear curve now.is it ok?If not how to do it.Im thinking of plotting it on a graph paper to get a similar curve. ;D.Tried this morning to maiden and actually did manage to get the first hover of my life before rain interrupted.also before leaving ground the heli vibrated a lot,at around 1/3rd throttle.it was smooth at higher throttles.is this normal.
And is there any significance of cg in rotory flight?i mean to the extent of it being a factor as to how the model will fly.like in aeroplanes,nose heavy=good for beginners thing.As a beginner what else are the areas i should look into?thx in advance.and yes the pitch gauge we r discussing over(TT precicion Pitch guage) doesn't suit 450 size helis.hv ordered an align version.
regards
nabam
ny advice-how to upload pictures greater than 128 kb in size.and how do u use this insert image function? ???
Quote from: nabam on August 04, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
set up the pitch and throttle curves as per manual for beginners.actually,couldnt set the throttle curve right,as the illustrated one in the manual had a 5 pt throttle curve and my Tx has 7 pts.I've left it as linear curve now.is it ok?
That is exactly the way to do it. Setup a linear curve with the end points as per the manual.
Quote from: nabam on August 04, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
also before leaving ground the heli vibrated a lot,at around 1/3rd throttle.it was smooth at higher throttles.is this normal.
Are your blades tracking properly ?
The blades will automatically align due to centrifugal force once the heli spins up. It should be smooth once this happens. Spin up once to align the blades and start again without distrubing the blades. Do you still see a lot of vibration ? Some amount of vibration at low throttle is normal.
Quote from: nabam on August 04, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
And is there any significance of cg in rotory flight?i mean to the extent of it being a factor as to how the model will fly.like in aeroplanes,nose heavy=good for beginners thing.
For the 450 size heli's it is easiest to check CG by lifting the heli by the flybar. Get the flybar 90deg to the tail and lift it, the heli should hang level. For beginners, a little nose down is also fine.
Quote from: nabam on August 04, 2009, 01:07:55 PM
ny advice-how to upload pictures greater than 128 kb in size.and how do u use this insert image function? ???
Just use http://www.webresizer.com to get the image to a manageable size and format.
Here are some pictures of my TT E325 (:|~
and thx Anwar for that info on resizing stuff.
Would I be the only one to admit that seeing a heli naked is so tempting :P
Tempting..... to.... go fly one.... right away !
Aww man!!!!.Flying this machine(hovering for now) is just so awesome.it feels completely magical. :oeverything holds perfect.im using the gyro in heading hold mode(red led).it does a good job.if this comparatively cheap TG-6100M gyro is this good,then im really eager to see how a more standard gyro like a Futaba GY401 would perform!!im definitely upgrading someday soon.but no qualms for now whatsoever.im very satisfied with this buy.Fultoo paisa vasool.today i flew three sorties of about 6-7 min each,all on 3s 2200 mah lipos.thank god i had these extra lipos already. {:)}
pics attached-
not so good picture quality regretted ;D
Quote from: nabam on August 04, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
set up the pitch and throttle curves as per manual for beginners.actually,couldnt set the throttle curve right,as the illustrated one in the manual had a 5 pt throttle curve and my Tx has 7 pts.I've left it as linear curve now.is it ok?
also before leaving ground the heli vibrated a lot,at around 1/3rd throttle.it was smooth at higher throttles.is this normal.
nabam
If you are using a linear pitch curve in normal flight (which means the heli will lift off some where around 65% throttle position), then it is usual to bump up the throttle curve in the quarter to mid point range of the throttle stick. It will also help you with better throttle authority on landings. There is a long range from 0 to 65% where you are having no lift (or not enough lift).
So if your throttle curve is 0-25-50 (linear) in the lower part, increase it to something like 0-35-55 (for 5 point; or 0-25-40-55 for 7 point curves). That extra throttle in the low ranges will take some of the vibration and instability away. Again, these values are just suggestions, find the ones that work for you using a bit of trial and error.
yes Anwar.even i felt the same.so do u mean to say that i bump up the lower half of the throttle curve and leave the upper half untouched?
Well, not exactly leave the upper half untouched, but small increment to complement the change done to the mid point. If the midpoint went from 50 to 55, then you might want to raise the 3/4th point by 2 or 3 (something like that, just to give you an idea). In other words, don't make the curve looks like it has "jumps".
If you increased the mid point from 50 to 60, then the 3/4th point should be increased by like 4 to 6.
If you put it in math terms, make it a "fitted" curve ;)
Again, there are no hard rules regarding this. Just play with the values, and see if you can make the heli stay in one spot without gaining and losing altitude, and without you have to constantly apply the throttle stick (I mean for the hover point, around 65%)
One thing I do recommend to everyone is to keep a single pitch curve in all flight modes (normal, idle-up1/sport, idle-up2/3d, and hold). Most people have separate pitch curves for normal, hold and idleup.
It is much easier if you get used to a single curve. Setting up of the heli is easier, the heli does not jump or dip when you change modes, and you do not have to get used to a separate pitch response in case you have to do auto-rotations etc.
People give me a weird look when I suggest this to them initially, but after they try it and get used to it, they always come back and say "thank you for suggesting that!".
Quote from: anwar on August 04, 2009, 07:54:01 PM
One thing I do recommend to everyone is to keep a single pitch curve in all flight modes
Very valuable advice there.a million thx.
BTW, wonder what is going on with the other MT from Prem ?
Hi Anwar/rotorzone.
After today's(2nd day) hovering practice,i noticed that the tail gradually wags to the left,i.e the heli turns right.so wt to i do,i mean to correct the wag and get a still hover?
Should i use the rudder trim or should i increase the gyro gain?
-Nabam
You should NEVER have to apply any trim to the rudder for these type of helis. If you feel the need for rudder trim, that just indicates something else is wrong.
The first thing to check is is you have enough gain in the gyro. Try increasing the gain until the tail starts to wag, and then back it down a little bit so that it stops wagging.
But more likely, the issue is of mechanical setup. Try lengthening (or shortening) the tail control rod (that one that connects the tail pitch slider to the tail servo) by one turn at a time, and see if the drift is improving or worsening by hovering the heli. Adjust accordingly.
PS: Hopefully you have a "ball link plier" to make it easy, since you may be removing and reattaching the link multiple times.
Aw... well,the ball link plier is in transit.should be receiving it shortly.nyways, thx for the answer.
nabam
Why do you need to wait ? In case it wasn't clear, you need to adjust dirft in normal mode by adjusting the length. It is not dependent on the rod length in heading hold mode. In heading hold mode, drift occurs when gyro gain is low.
In short, increase the gain and try. Anwar has already given you the process.
thx rotor.will giv it a try tomorow.the wag i was refering to is very minimal and slow,though.can live with it for now.
As for setting up mechanically,i'll wait for my tool kit to arrive.
Some clarification of heli terms is in order here. When the tail rotates slowly in one direction, it is called "drift". Usually caused by low gain in HH mode.
"Wag" is a rapid left and right movement of the tail. This is caused by too high a gyro gain.
Ok got it.it's a drift then.
here are some pics of my bird with the new Rotortech CF main blades. ;D.looks awesome n flies too.being a newbie still,cant tell the difference in flight characteristics,but the flight times sure have increased.!!
Increased the gyro gain to about 55%,and guess what-the tail drifts gone.
Once again anwar and rotor thx for the helpful answers.
RotorTechs are premium quality, and a bit cheaper than other blades in the same class.
A friend (who is currently the best heli 3D pilot in Qatar) tried many other brands, and finally settled on these. Because he does stuff close to the ground, he kisses the ground more often than others; so the price point helps ;)
This is the only video I could find of him; gotta take more when we fly together again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Odc_C2CtE
Dear Mr. Anwar, Got all the things checked and re checked but still the mini does not lift off the ground even on full throttle but just waivers a bit left and right, tried to get a video of the smae in the night but it has not come out well, sounds are not clear will try again tomorrow but for the time being plase make do with this. the video is with full throtle.
the video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8C3TbPzpyU
Dear Mr. Anwar would be grateful if u could provide me the ideal pitch setup in the low throttle, mid and high throttle positions as i am now confident of using the pitch guage.regards
Assuming you are using a linear throttle curve, try something like -3 at 0 throttle, +3 at 50% throttle and +9 at 100% throttle.
BTW, did the heli spin on its tail and crash at the end of the video ?
If it did, that typically means your gyro compensation direction is reversed. You will need to change the direction using dip switches on the gyro unit.
no luckily the heli just stopped itself after about 5 sec. What should the settings be for the gyro. What should be the ideal pitch angles
Again, please note that both your questions have been answered before. Please read two posts above.
Just to clarify, there is dip-switch on the TG6100M with the name "RUD" (for "rudder"), with two positions "NOR" (normal) and "REV" (reverse). It is this switch that you want to flip, if the heli rotates on its tail when there is enough head-speed.
Note that the heli may rotate on its tail also because the linkage length for tail rod is too much or too little. So while spooling up slowly, see if you can control the tail pirouettes by applying rudder. If you are able control (or almost control) the spin, then it is just a control rod length issue. If you are unable to get any level of control on the spinning with any amount of rudder, try flipping the above mentioned dip-switch.
Dear Mr. Anwar, i have set pitch as advised by you at -3 at 0 throttle, +3 at 50% throttle and +9 at 100% throttle. will try the advise of ur last post regarding switching switches and intimate u on the success or failure.regards
So whatever happened to this ? :headscratch:
Updates ? Still grounded ?
OK, although Prem chose to never reply to this thread, he did confirm that it got sold in another thread. So whatever the issue is, must have got resolved ! ;)
sorry for not responding earlier, as pointed out by Mr.Anwar i have managed to sell it. Sorry for the delay.i am locking it now
Need Help.
I have gone through the complete thread about the problem.
I have purchased a used Mini Titan E325 with everything setup very well but without the Tx and Rx.
This is the first time I will fly so had really hard time to even install the receiver with the servos leads going to the right channel but some how managed to connect everything in the right channel.
Tested everything and all the servos work in the right direction.
The only problem I have now is that when I move the throttle stick to half or full, the all the 3 servo arms move up pushing the swash plate up but the motor does not start at all.
Initially when I was struggling to setup the leads, I started with connecting the ESC into channel 3 and the moment I did that, the motor started rotating which means the motor is working fine.
But now after everything is setup properly, the motor does not start.
Please help me resolve the issue.
First of all, any experiments should be with the main blades removed.
What radio are you using ? Are you using the CCPM mixing from the radio, or the mixer unit that comes with the MT ? If you are using a heli model, have you verified the throttle curve ?
I agree, learnt it the hard way.
Initially had the blades on and the moment I connected the battery the blades rotated and hit me. Immediately removed the battery and got the blades off the bird.
I am using a Futaba 8FG Super which defaults to Heli.
All the settings are on default, however I have reversed the servos for channel 2 and 6.
After doing that all the servos are moving in the right direction as so is the awash plate. Had followed the video for CCPM Setup.
Have set the swash type set to H-3 on th transmitter.
All working fine other than the motor starting.
as Anwar said have you checked throttle hold/cut on Futaba, tx make sure that switch is turned off only then the motor will spin
Since you are using an 8FG, pay close attention to the "FUNCTION" menu, and use the "SERVO MONITOR" menu for troubleshooting.
I have checked and confirm that the Throttle Cut is turned off. Actually cannot keep it turned on because its a switch like the door bell switch, u can press it but the moment u leave it, it comes back to its actual position.
I have also turned off the throttle cut/hold to OFF position in the TX menu.
Mr. Anwar I did go to the Servo option in the function menu and checked, the curves show proper reading. Infact when I put the servo into the test mode, the curves on the Tx move up and down and so does the servos on the heli.
Even after all this, I am unable to understand why the motor did not turn on.
As of now the ESC was connected through the switch where the other end of the switch went to channel 3 (throttle).
For some reason I removed the switch and connected the ESC wire directly in the channel 3 and suddenly the motor started spinning even though the throttle stick was at 0 on the Tx.
Luckily I had already removed the main blades but still the flybar blade hit me and I sort of have a small cut on my finger. (Well it was my mistake and now i pay for it).
Serious Warning to all (specially once new to heli like me), be very careful with the Heli's and do not have the main blades on the heli unless all is setup well and tested. It is just too dangerous.
Back to the point, Friends, please help.... what should I do? Cannot get the motor to spin.
You added a switch on a "signal" wire ? :o That makes sense when you are using a separate BEC, or you have a separate receiver battery powering the electronics.
For Futaba, you have to reverse channel 3. That is the first thing you do, when you setup an electric model in Futaba.
What you should have been watching for on the "Servo Monitor" screen is the activity on channel 3 (nothing else matters, as far as this problem is concerned). Seems like you missed this important part. So let us try this again. Does the bar for channel 3 show any movement when you increase/decrease throttle ?
Finally... there is NO "servo option in function menu". There is a "FUNCTION" screen and a separate "SERVO MONITOR" screen (I believe both are under the LINKAGE menu). Please pay close attention to details on these instructions, or this remote debugging will drag on :)
The function menu is what decides which channel does what. Make sure throttle is channel 3. Then, as I said before, use the Servo Monitor to see if there any movement on channel 3 when you change throttle via the stick.
Once gain, use the SERVO REVERSE menu to ensure channel 3 is reversed.
OK.
Current settings on my Futaba 8FG:
Linkage >> Reverse (Option 7) >>
1 Ail - Norm
2 Ele - Rev
3 Thr - Rev
4 Rud - Norm
5 Gyro - Norm
6 Pit - Rev
7 Gov - Norm
8 Ndl - Norm
DG1 - Norm
DG2 - Norm
Linkage >> Servo (Option 1) >> with "Throttle stick full down" reading
the bars show the following readings:
1: +49
2: -50
3: -100
4: 0
5: +59
6: -49
7: 0
8: 0
Linkage >> Servo (Option 1) >> with "Throttle stick full up" reading
the bars show the following readings:
1: -50
2: +49
3: +100
4: 0
5: +59
6: +50
7: 0
8: 0
Then changed the Channel 3 to normal
Linkage >> Reverse (Option 7) >>
1 Ail - Norm
2 Ele - Rev
3 Thr - Norm
4 Rud - Norm
5 Gyro - Norm
6 Pit - Rev
7 Gov - Norm
8 Ndl - Norm
DG1 - Norm
DG2 - Norm
Linkage >> Servo (Option 1) >> with "Throttle stick full down" reading
the bars show the following readings:
1: +49
2: -50
3: +100
4: 0
5: +59
6: -49
7: 0
8: 0
Linkage >> Servo (Option 1) >> with "Throttle stick full up" reading
the bars show the following readings:
1: -50
2: +49
3: -100
4: 0
5: +59
6: +50
7: 0
8: 0
Other Menu settings:
Linkage >> Model Type (Option 3) >>
Type: Helicopter
SWASH: H-3
RESET: OFF
Linkage >> Frequency (Option 4) >>
Area: General
FASST: 7CH
Linkage >> Function (Option 5) >>
CTRL TRIM
1 AIL - J1 T1 SEPAR
2 ELE - J2 T2 SEPAR
3 THR - J3 T3 SEPAR
4 RUD - J4 T4 SEPAR
5 GYRO - -- --
6 PIT - J3 --
7 GOV - -- --
8 NDL - LS --
v1 AUX1 -- --
v2 AUX1 -- --
v3 AUX1 -- --
v4 AUX1 -- --
DG1 SD
DG2 SA
Linkage >> Sub-Trip (Option 6) >> All set to 0
1 Ail - 0
2 Ele - 0
3 Thr - 0
4 Rud - 0
5 Gyro - 0
6 Pit - 0
7 Gov - 0
8 Ndl - 0
Linkage >> Fail Safe (Option 8) >>
3 THR HOLD
all other are blank
Linkage >> THR CUT (Option 10) >>
ACT: OFF
POS: 17%
SW --
Linkage >> SWASH (Option 12) >>
Neutral AFR
POS 50% AIL +50%
ELE +50%
PIT +50%
Hope the above info will help understand the setup so you could help me figure out what am i doing wrong.
BTW Anwar ji, as mentioned in my last post, when I removed the switch and connected the ESC cable to ch3 on the Rx, the motor started spinning (and I cut my finger slightly).
Quote from: dst161 on February 19, 2012, 09:05:17 PM
BTW Anwar ji, as mentioned in my last post, when I removed the switch and connected the ESC cable to ch3 on the Rx, the motor started spinning (and I cut my finger slightly).
I got everything from the above post, except the part quoted above. What do you mean when you say "you connected the ESC cable to ch3 on the RX"... it should be connected there the whole time, right ?
The servo monitor confirms that the throttle channel output (channel 3) seems to be working as expected. Throttle should be reversed, unless you messed with settings in the SYSTEM menu.
This looks more and more like a wiring/connections issue.
The channel 3 is reversed.
All this time I had the battery connected to the ESC and the ESC connected to the motor and the switch where the switch was connected to ch3 on the RX.
I actually removed the switch and tried connecting the ESC cable to ch3 and every time I did that the motor starts spinning and I was lucky twice but third time I did so I cut my finger.
Now I am scared to connect the ESC directly into ch3 unless you can suggest a safe way to connect it and test.
Remove your tail blades. Secure the heli on table (use tape or sticks+tape or cable ties or something like that).
Try powering up with the throttle stick all the way up one time, and then try again with the throttle stick all the way down. One of them should have the motor idle.
If not, I believe you are incorrect in your connections, and you have to post pictures/illustrations of how you have connected everything.
OK Mr. Anwar, Will try and let you know by late tonight.
I have just come to the office and my work timing is from 2 PM -10 PM.
Hello Mr. Anwar, as you suggested, I tied the heli tail to a table and then first connected the battery and just as I was about to connect the ESC cable to ch3 on the Rx, I stopped and first checked the Tx to make sure that Ch3 on the Tx is reversed.
Once confirmed, instead of connecting the ESC to the Rx, I actually got an idea and disconnected the battery from the Heli.
Then I actually removed the motor itself from the heli and then connected the battery to the ESC and the ESC directly to the Rx in ch3 and then tested and everything worked absolutely fine.
I preferred to remove the motor altogether from the heli itself was because I was just too scared to connect the battery even though the heli was secure.
Now the only thing I have to do is to replace the Tail Pitch Control Link as it broke last time when i also got hurt.
Thanks allot to Mr. Anwar and all others who have helped me till this point.
Once I replace the control links, will try to hover the heli and will let u know the results.
BTW, the throttle curve is on default as of now i.e. 0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100.
Wow ! I totally missed the fact that you were connecting the battery first, then connecting the ESC signal cable to the receiver. Note that in all electric setups, the battery to ESC connection is what is typically connected last (just like in "Cars", which is noted on your profile), and the ESC to receiver connection is permanently plugged into whatever channel (ch 3 in this case).
Now I am totally confused as to what happened, and how you are confirming that throttle is working fine with the motor "removed" ?
In any case, please fo confirm the movement of the tail pitch slider is in the right direction, and so is the direction of gyro compensation. And for the first spool up, do in a smooth flat ground, and very slowly, as there is some chance that the heli will spin on its tail (as the gyro compensation direction may be reversed).
What I did was just removed the motor from the heli and placed it separately and then connected the battery to ESC while the ESC was already connected to the RX in my last attempt.
The moment I connected the battery, I heard the music and to my surprise the motor did not spin.
The I moved the throttle stick on the Tx slightly to around 10% and the motor started to spin.
The i tried moving the throttle stick up and down multiple times and the motor responded based on how much throttle I gave.
The I put the motor back into the heli and tested it again and things worked as they should.
When you say the tail pitch slider is in the right direction, can you please provide more details on that?
What should happen if the rudder stick (throttle works as rudder when moved horizontal - side ways instead of up/down) is moved to right?
Should the rudder servo push the tail linkage rod towards to back or should it pull the tail linkage rod towards the gyro?
and so on? that will help.
It seems that you need to perform a throttle stick calibration by moving the throttle stick to the max position (100% throttle )and connecting the esc to the battery (with the motor connected to the ESC) now the ESC should go in setup mode and as soon as you hear 2 quick beeps immidiately bring the throttle stick down to 0% throttle, now you should hear a confirmation beep followed by the normal music of the ESC.
This will change the abrupt motor movement and you will have a smooth throttle curve starting from 0% and not 10% like before.
to answer your second question irrespective of the servo horn direction the slider on the tail shaft should move opposite to the stick delection and the correct position is that if you move the rudder stick to right, the slider should move towards the tail box away from the blades and vice a versa.(this test should be done at rate mode of Gyro -light turned off)
Now another thing to check is the gyro direction small switch says NOR or REV so keeping the heli pointing on the left move the tail of the heli towards your self and the gyro should move the slider towards the blades if this does not happen change the small switch position.
Hellyflyer
Quote from: dst161 on February 21, 2012, 09:17:33 PM
When you say the tail pitch slider is in the right direction, can you please provide more details on that?
I would urge you to watch the 450 heli tail setup videos, from Finless Bob etc. Please search the forum for earlier threads on this.
Getting this wrong may cost you money ! :(
Thanks Mr. Anwar.
The current servo's setup that I have done in terms of directions have been done by watching the 450 heli setup video by Finless Bob.
Will watch the tail setup also and do accordingly.
Thanks again for the help....