Hi
I recently purchase a MT that came equipped with one of these ACE RC TG-6100M Gyro + E-CCPM mixer
Had I known that this device was both a mixer and a gyro I may have made an alternate selection as I am using a FUTABA 6EXHP radio I have no real need for the mixer.
I would like to hear from anyone that has one of these (and hopefully some experience)
The Manual tells me to use my radio in aircraft mode. (Fine by me I fly mode 1, because I fly planes)
The manual contains very little information on anything else. From the best I can guess things such as mixing and throttle curves don't seem to apply when set into your radio.
Of course if you apply a throttle curve it will have an effect, but that effect is mixed in with what appears to be the pre programmed operation of the ACE mixer.
It's all very confusing to some one who is very new to heli's
dont know if this will help you
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=187980 (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=187980)
Yes , i guess this may help! I will try it tommorow morning , but where to i plug the White/red/black wire which will supply the power to the gyro ?
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t395194p1/ (http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t395194p1/)
Red/black/white plug (AILE) from Gyro to AUX 2 in receiver pack - as per the above link... i would recommend that you read this link carefully before taking any steps..
Quote from: Sahevaan on April 13, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
The Manual tells me to use my radio in aircraft mode. (Fine by me I fly mode 1, because I fly planes)
The manual contains very little information on anything else. From the best I can guess things such as mixing and throttle curves don't seem to apply when set into your radio.
Of course if you apply a throttle curve it will have an effect, but that effect is mixed in with what appears to be the pre programmed operation of the ACE mixer.
It's all very confusing to some one who is very new to heli's
Dude... did you make the post else where many years ago ? :o
http://www.rchelimag.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5911
1. Discussion about this in this thread : http://www.rcindia.org/helis/mini-titan-problem/
2. You can easily choose to not use the CCPM mixer on the TG6100M, and use the mixing in your Futaba instead. It gives you better control over the settings. You can get a manual for the gyro unit here : http://mms.tiger.tw/upload/2010-3/20103159286.pdf
Quote from: Sahevaan on April 13, 2011, 12:57:03 AM
Yes , i guess this may help! I will try it tommorow morning , but where to i plug the White/red/black wire which will supply the power to the gyro ?
3. If you are worried about not having enough channels in the 6 channel receiver to power the gyro unit (if you set it up to use mixing in the radio), just use a Y cable on one of the receiver channels to split it out.
I had copy pasted the post but made changes to it.
I wasn't able to correctly tell the problem so i just put the same here , which is the same as my problem. The thing in that post was that they did not fully resolve it i guess. I thought of posting this long ago but due to exams i didn't.
No problem :) Do you have enough information to make progress on this, based on my above response ?
I guess i should be able to make progress , my main concern was that both the CCPM mixings were activate , how to de-activate either one ?
You don't have to deactivate. If you use the eCCPM mixing from your radio, you will be connecting the swash servos directly to the receiver channels, and NOT to the TG6100M unit. So whatever mixing that unit does does not matter. You will only be using the rudder/tail-gyro part of that unit.
And the wiring issue for it ?
I have an 8ch Rx on it. Can i use any channel for the source of power ?
Yes. It would be convenient to use one of the un-used channels at the end (7 or 8 ).
It will need no control from the Tx right ?
Not sure I understood the question/concern. Can you elaborate on "no control from the TX" ?
If you mean the gyro unit being controlled from the TX, then that is limited to rudder and gain settings only (typically channels 4 and 5 in Futaba).
No , i meant the 7-8th channel which i will plug the power source to , will not require any controls right ?
Should not, just the power from 2 (of the 3) pins/legs on either of these channels.
I am sure you know it, but remember to reverse channel 3, since this is Futaba.
Will do it :)
I am trying to set up my MT 325 for basic straight flying (not 3D)and need help. My set up details are given below:
1. TX – Futaba 6EXHP
2. Throttle Curve – 0 – 45 – 65 – 85 – 100
3. Pitch Curve - 40 – 60 – 75 – 85 – 90
4. EPA - 100
5. Idle Up Throttle– Not activated
6. Idle up Pitch – Not activated
7. Throttle Hold – On
8. Revo- Not activated
9. Swash – 3-S
10. Swash Mix – AEP - All at 50
I was looking for pitch angles of -2; +5 and +9. However what I was surprised to find is that when I take pitch angle readings with a pitch gauge the blades show different pitch angles at different positions (NSEW) of the rotor circle. Say if I name my two blades B1 and B2 then this is how the angles read:
Zero Throttle ( Stick full down)
1. East – B1 -4; B2 -5
2. West – B1 -1; B2 -1
3. North – B1 -3; B2 -3
4. South – B1 -3; B2 -3
Mid Throttle (Mid position)
1. East – B1 +7; B2+6
2. West – B1 +9; B2 +7
3. North – B1 +7; B2 +7
4. South – B1 +6; B2 +7
Full Throttle ( Stick Full up)
1. East – B1 +10; B2 +9
2. West – B1 +14; B2 +12
3. North – B1 +11; B2 +11
4. South – B1 +11; B2 +11
So even if I adjust my pitch curve it really gets me nowhere.
I have made sure that my swash plate is absolutely level at all throttle positions. My servo horns are 90 at zero throttle. Each push rod length is exactly as per the instruction manual. All servos by-pass the gyro except the rudder. All the controls react positively.
I don't think there can be so much variation in the pitch of the blades. What am I doing wrong? Please help.
hi pradeep
by the looks of it i think your blades are not tracked.. meaning both the blades are not in line with each other... pls have then tracked first and then both the blades will talk the same pitch angle and also check for a loose mixing arm or loose links..
Hi Pradeep,
It looks like your swash is not level so ensure that the swash and the washout arms are level when you are ar mid stick.
Dear Sahevaan ,
Here is how I have finally succeeded in setting up the SWAH uisng Hitec optic 6 Tx.
I have bypasssed all ECCPM mixing from TG6100. I use it only for rudder control and gyro function.
With 6 channel Rx u have a limitation of not able to use the remote GYRO gain but can be over come by using Y cable ( as mentioned above i have not experimented it so not sure) Or set the gain on the TG6100 unit using a screw driver . I do it that way as u dont have to fiddle with gain always.
My set up are as folllows. i use Hitec HFS MT-06 Rx
Left servo - Channel 6
Right Servo - Channel 1
Elevator servo ( the behind one) - Channel 2
ESC - Channel 3
Tail servo to TG6100 unit RUDD slot
TG6100 - AILE white red and black wire to channel 5 (used to power) use INH from the Tx for this channel as u dont want to
change any thing .
Normally channel 5 is used for remote gain function but as I have only 6 channels I have to use this for power and INH it.
But if u have a 7 channel u can power it in 7th channel and use channel 5 for remote gain function and connet the green wire from
TG6100 to it.
TG6100 (RUDD yellow wire) - Channel 4 on Rx.
Now comes the Tx set up part.
in Mini titan the SWASh plate moves down for positive pitch.
Make sure all three servos move simultaneously same distance down at increasing throttle. This I have achieved using following changes in Servo reversin menu and SWAH mixing menu.
PS : the servo horns to be perpendicular at half throttle not 0 throttle. But it will be almost perpendicular if you give 40% at pitch mixing at 0 throttle I hope this is understood.
Servo reverse menu ( these are applicable to my physical setup ) may deffer from heli to heli depending on the
Reverse menu
Channel 1 - NOR
Channel 2 - REV
Channel 3 - NOR
Channel 4 - NOR
Channel 5 - NOR
Channel 6 - REV
SWAH menu
Channel 1 - +70
Channel 2 - -70
Channel 3 - +70
GYRO - INH as we have used this to power the Rx dont want to change any thing using the gain control switch accidentaly.
Trottle curve
1 - 0
2 - 35 %
3 - 50 %
4 - 80 %
5 - 90 %
Pitch curve
1 - 40%
2 - 50%
3 - 65%
4 - 75%
5 - 80%
Here i get to hover just above the mid throttle and I am comfortable in that as I am a beginner. Also I use exponential function for Channel 1 and 2 for smooth manuers.
Never use the mixing function from the TG6100 and the Tx together that will take you for a ride.
Use it only if you are using a normal 4/6 channel radio with out mixing facility. otherwise they both interfere and give you a mixed vegetable kurma wiht out salt and pepper :-).
Regards,
Rithwik
Hi Sujju and Amit
Thanks for your replies. You are right, the blades are not tracking straight. That is evident from the changing pitch angles. I have taken care with the levelling and also adjusted washout arms and pushrod lengths to get 90 deg at mid stick. Re- set up the whole thing and still no luck. My point is that even if there is a level problem, there has to be some consistency in the pitch angle changes. Cant be just random. Any thing else you can think of?
Regards
Pradeep
Hi Pradeep,
Check the following (even if you have not flown the machine )
1. Bent feahering Shaft some times these are stock bent slightly
2. Bent Main Shaft reason same as above
3. Bent / curved main Blades (wooden blades curve, espcecially the ones with holes in them)
4. Blade tightness that can also affect the pitch.
5. Bent Blade Grips (rare but can be an issue)
6. Bent Flybar
Now there may be a possiblity that nothing is bent and everything is fine on the machine and it's just the surface on which the Heli is kept which is causing the issue or we are not able to keep the Flybar straight enough at every position that may cause this issue. Normally I only measure the pitch keeping the heli side ways and rotating the blades I fix the Flybar using a Blade holder to keep it straight or use a button water level.
Hellyflyer
Amit
Thats what I am suspecting but did not have the heart to voice aloud. My concerns are the main shaft/ feathering shaft/Blades.Cant check the shafts visually. Cant make out. But the blades have been suspect right from the beginning. Do you think I should replace the head totally with a metal one and change the blades to CF and do a check?
Regards
Pradeep
Ok ... I have been slow but I think I have finally got the MT 325 set up. Needed to adjust the blade grip linkages. I had mistakenly thought that the link rod lengths given by the manufacturer are sacrosanct. Not no be changed. But obviously that is not true. These lengths are just an indication of a starting point. So after levelling the swashplate with a leveller and running a blade tracking exercise, I think I might have come to some stage of acceptable figures:
1. Idle-up - INH
2. Throttle curve - 0, 45, 65, 85, 100
3. Pitch curve - 25, 50, 65, 80, 100
4. DR - Normal - Ail 80%, Ele 80%, Rud 80%
Step 1 - 100, 100, 100
5. Expo - Normal - -35%, -35%, -35% (Futaba)
Step 1 - -20%, -20%, -20%
6. Swash - A +50%, E+50%, P-34%
7. Pitch angles - Normal -2, +5, +10
Blades tracking well. No visible difference between blade levels.
Do the above figures make sense? Need some reassurance before I take it further.
my only concern
6. Swash - A +50%, E+50%, P-34%
ideally get the swash of P to 50 and set the linkages mechanically... with 34% you will be compromising the pitch travel a lot
7. Pitch angles - Normal -2, +5, +10
my personal recommendation is -2, 0, +10
Anwar, you mean I should take the Pitch up to -50? Then the pitxch angle at max will probably go beyond 14. You would advice me to bring this down by adjusting the blade grip linkages?
hi mate.
do you get 'actual' +10 pitch at full throttle?
if so then no need to alter the swash setting.
have you tried to fly or hover the craft yet?
with that small pitch number the swash will not move much, and you may find you have very fast pitch change,
normal setting for swash is 60% for all three and some times you need more on pitch..it all depends on the setup and servos throw you are using.
regards
don
Quote from: pradeepdasgupta on August 19, 2011, 09:54:09 AM
Anwar, you mean I should take the Pitch up to -50?
I guess the question is for RcBazaar :)
Thanks Sunk and Anwar. I have started afresh to see if I can correct things any further. Yes I was getting an actual +10 on full throttle and -2 at zero throttle. No I have not taken the MT for a hover as yet. Thought I would get my funda in order first and get my setup to a point where the Gurus will say "Ok I think you can now give it a go".
By the way Anwar even when my pitch curve is 25-50-65-80-100 my pitch angle at mid stick should read 0? Because during setup with a linear pitch curve of 25-50-100 I think i had had 0 at mid stick.
I am not sure if the questions are directed to me or at RcBazaar/sujju. Anyways, there are 3 different ways people setup pitch curves for normal flying/hovering.
1) "-x 0 +x" at zero, mid and full throttle stick positions. Here "x" is 9 to 13, depending on the heli, and your style of flying.
2) "-3 +5 +x" at zero, mid and full. The idea here is to hover at around middle stick. This has the disadvantage that going to idle-up (3D modes) will cause the heli to sink, because the mid stick pitch will change from +5 to 0. But this may be better for absolute beginners because there is a wider pitch range around mid stick for finer adjustments.
3) "-3 0 +x". This one is similar to [2] above, but avoids the pitch jump when you go to idleup/3D modes. In this setup, your hover point will be above mid stick, somewhere around 65% to 75% position of the throttle stick.
So these are the choices when you are at 0, 50 and 100 on your pitch curve.
Note that this "-3" etc are not hard numbers, some people to -2 instead, others go to -4. These are sort of guidelines.
Thanks Anwar. No.2 is what I had in mind as I am a total beginner with helis and all I have flown are 4 ch fixed pitch and some simulator. In that case my readings of -2, +5 and +10 should be ok giving me hovering at around mid-stick.
Thanks Sunk and Anwar for all your help. Will wait and see if Sujju has any suggestions.
Hi sunk and Anwar ( and anyone else out there)
I did some more homework, checked out Finless and other posts and came to the conclusion that there are different schools of thought determining what the pitch angle should be at mid stick for a beginner. Some swear by +5 and others profess 0. Both have their "good and bad". The low end and the high end are non controversial at -2 or3 and +10 or 11. Anyway, as I had stated in my last post, I re did the full set up for the Mini titan again and got -10, 0 and +10 on linear pitch curve of 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100 with throttle at 0,25,50,75,100.
So now I have set it up as follows:
Th Curve - 0, 45,65,85,100
Pitch Curve - 45,55,75,85,100
Pitch angles - -2, 0, +5, +8, +10
I think that should be as good a beginning as any. However if I find that the chopper is unsteady at mid stick hover, I'll up the throttle from 65 to 70.
Cheers.
I will let you in on a secret ;D
For a beginner, absolute precision about these setups/numbers are just academic exercises ! If you are in the general range of values, what matters are your thumbs (i.e. sim time you have put in). What goes wrong with many people is that they slam the heli down during landings, based on their sim training (and sims are very very forgiving). Landing are to be done very gently, like trying to hover in one height, and then lowering the throttle stick just ONE click... and let the heli slowly come down on its own. In other words, don't "fly it down", unless it is an emergency situation. It has to "float down" instead.
+1 Anwar
Pradeep,
You should keep the Throttle curve as linear as possible and if you feel that the head speed is too much to handle (heli is very twitchy) then bring down the TH curve settings (still try to keep a straight line) .Your pitch at mid stick should always be 0 degrees as it will prepare you for 3D flying, and you can keep the -2 pitch at low stick for normal mode which is just to bring the heli down if you are flying it in a little windy day.
Hellyflyer
Now that gives me some reassurance! Thanks Guys.
hi mate.
the -10....0......+10 is to ensure you have full pitch range when setting up, and is used in idle up/stunt mode.
in normal mode -3..... +5 .....+10 is more normal and used for learning as the 'hover' is then around mid-stick+, which is more comfortable for most.
so both options are right.
once setup you can alter the pitch at various stick positions with your pitch curve in the computer type tx to suit your level of flying.
regards
don