Guys,
Though i can do loops and rolls easily on the sim, I cannot gather enough courage to do it on my Raptor 50.
I can do fast forward flights, stall turns, but never attempted a loop.
I have Idle up 1 configured, and read through all that is available on the net.

I think I just need to get of the crash fear. Hopefully this coming weekend I will be able to attempt one.

Since I lack someone on the field who could help, Anwar, and others who know this, please chip in with your suggestions.

Also I can do flips easily on the Sim. Should i try those before the loops ?

Thanks !

I am not sure which one is easier.  Here is what I tend to tell others.

1.  If you are attempting a loop, start from a level flight at a good height with the heli going away from and a bit in front of you, so that during the entire loop it stay in front of you.

2.  If you are attempting a roll (I assume this is what you are calling a flip), again start with a level flight, but before starting the maneuver, put the heli in a 10 to 15% nose up (climbing path), using elevator alone (NOT using pitch/throttle).  Depending on your elevator throws, a roll can result in loss of altitude.

3.  Once you start the maneuver, continue on to finish it and don't fiddle with the sticks.  You do not necessarily have to apply negative pitch the first time itself, unless you are confident of applying it and removing it at the right times. If you have good height, that should take care of everything.

4.  Remember the hold switch and be prepared to use it.

My way of doing it:

1)Before going into the loop or anything, pitch pump the heli. Come down fast(-12 pitch) and do a sudden +12. The tail should hold. Its very important to have a ROCK solid tail. Fortunately HK401B does a very good job for me.

I will tell How I did it, rather than instruct wrong things (with my few months of lil experience) and make u crash. 

2)When I first attempted the loop(Yeah , just a small HK 450, so didnt worry about the crash.).
   A)The Heli was moving in the direction of the Wind AND NOT AGAINST THE WIND! For me The heli was moving from my right to left.
   B)The height was quite High, but I was able to judge the orientation.
   C)As the heli moved forward fast, I gave the elevator and as the heli reached its peak inverted, I gave a little negative. Basically coz I did not know how big a loop this bad guy would do. It almost looked like an elevator flip.
   D) I did these a couple of times, and slowly started reducing the negative pitch I used to give.
   e)Finally after 4 to 5 attempts did a loop.

3)I have not attempted a roll when moving so no explaination.

4)

  A)When doing a flip, I give a little +ve pitch so as the make sure the heli is climbing slowly atleast.
  B)Gave aileron inputs and when almost the heli coming inverted, I give -ve inputs,
  C)Still continually giving aileron inputs, once the heli almost becomes upright, I give +ve inputs. Rather than a flip it looks like kid jumping around. But for beginning its safe.

I can now hover inverted 5 feet from the ground even in light wind tail in for as long as I want. But the heli being too small, time to upgrade to a 500.

Thanks guys for tips.
Read below for my report. Its long, but includes a report on how I crashed ( if that would make you guys read it all ) !!!

I managed to attempt my first loops. Here is how I went.
Yesterday afternoon, just after posting my message here, I took the heli to the field, and did a few fast forward flights, got the heli in IdleUp1 (1700 RPM with governor )  and did a few stall turns.
So it looked like it was time to attempt the dreaded loop ! Got the heli into the wind, and in fast forward flight, pulled back on the cyclic. As with stall turns, I reduced the collective early ( maybe a mistake ) , so I was kind of neutral on pitch when the heli was going up. I kept the cyclic pulled back, and when the heli was inverted went down on the collective further. On the final leg, I gave +ve collective and bailed out. It went kinda OK but I felt that I lost quite a bit of height, and that the heli wasnt very responsive when i pulled it out of the loop.

On my second attempt, I did the same thing, and the heli came out OK, but after it straightened out, it kept descending !! It was a little far out, and even though I increased collective it didnt climb out. It was kind of sinking vertically . Then it crashed with the engine purring.. I hit the hold, and then switched off the engine.

When i walked up to the heli I noticed that it was lying sideways, and there had been a boomstrike. The tail boom was bent, and double links sheared. Nothing else !
I was lucky !

Got home, and repaired in 2 hours. Did a small hover in my garden to assure myself that everything else was OK.

I did a bit of reading too, and noticed that people suggested that you should not decrease collective untill the heli is inverted.. I think i was doing it too early. So i practiced on sim, and went to the field this morning.

I did 2 loops, higher this time, and though both seemed to come out OK, i noticed that again at the bottom the heli was sluggish.

I concluded that the engine may be rich and not giving the power when the heli needed the most.

I leaned out the main needle a few clicks, and hopefully that should be of help. Does leaning the main needle mean that the idle would have got leaned out automatically ? Anyways I did 3 tanks today and though I didnt attempt loops again today, I plan to get to them sometime next week.

I guess having someone experienced besides, when learning,  really makes a difference.

I will get to them - Loops ,rolls and everything beyond inspite of that.

-Gaurav

Congrats Gaurav on your first loop, I have never flown a nitro heli, so I was lucky all the time I guess.

Ok, I thought over how the heli behaved earlier when I attempted a loop and deduced that the engine was bogging up when I increased collective. SO i leaned it a couple of clicks. Feels much better on IdleUp. I did several "jumps" ie stabbing full collective to see how the engine responded, and its got better.
Went to the field today and attempted loops again . IT WORKED ! I did around 6 loops today and did not loose altitude. Attempted 3 rolls too. Went well !

Will be trying more tomorrow, and work on perfecting them .

Great

Now you will begin to realize how LITTLE of the pitch range (both +ive and -ive) you really need to do these maneuvers.  Once you start realizing that, that will take you flying to a whole another level.

Did a few more loops yesterday. Well around 15 or so ! I think i have them much better now. Anwar, you are right, that as I gain confidence, I realise giving less amounts of pitch helps track the heli better.  Couple of observations/ questions :

1. When doing a loop, and the heli is at the top, ie inverted, sometimes the speed bleeds of and the remaining loop becomes more of a flip.. Is that because of giving too much negative collective ?

2. I am not sure my engine is still tuned perfect. i use a 20% castor oil fuel with no nitro, and headspeed is 1850 rpm on idleup . When I stab full throttle ( with 100% throttle, and +10 pitch ), I hear the rpm sag a bit. Is that normal ? or does a 50 size engine got enough power to swing the blades at 1850 rpm on +10 pitch at full throttle ?

3. When doing a roll, it is important to pitch up first, right ? ie get the nose a little high and then using ailerons ? Thats what I am doing but, waned to confirm if its right thing to do ! .

BTW I plan to just keep on doing these rolls and loops till I am very confident . Then will move ahead to my next goal - Autos !

1.  Most likely, you are over applying the controls.  Another less common issue is when your clunk line is too long, that it does not move around when inverted, restricting the the fuel intake (on helis without header tanks).  Remember that clunk lines tend to elongate a bit with time.

2.  That is most important lesson in heli flying.  The whole point about being a better flyer is to NEVER stay at the highest pitch range positions for more than a second or two !  If you want any professional pilots stick movements, they will never dwell at the +12 or -12 pitch ranges for long, they will just punch in and out just to arrest the movement of the heli (and it is usually sub-seconds duration).  And the reason for that is exactly what you are seeing, that it bleeds the head speed.  98% of 3D/aerobatic moves are done below the 75% stick positions (both + and -).

The second part of this is that we all try to extract max engine performance from our engines using lots of nitro.  This is why 3D heli pilots most often use 30% nitro (I guess the other group is the car guys).  This helps the engines drive the blades even at higher pitch ranges, but even then there are limits to it.  This is why you see people fighting (and sometimes killing) their engines for that extra 100rpm, taking then to around 2100 for hard 3D (on 50 size).

3. I don't know if there are hard and fast rules about such things.  If you have sufficient forward speed, rolls can be done in pretty much a straight line (ie, without losing or gaining any altitude), by judicious use of pitch.  That again comes with practice, and I too do not get it right all the time.  For beginners, it does HELP to start with a bit of nose up, just like how you starting trying rolls on airplanes.  With practice, one can do clean rolls in-place (ie without any forward speed at all) too.