Hi,
I got a question here. I am assembling the Main Drive Gear assembly, and the clutch shaft goes into the clutch housing ( that has one way bearings i think ) . Now i noticed that the clutch shaft is scractched in a couple of places. Is that anything to be concerned about ? I will be putting one way grease here, but the scratches on the steel shaft have me a little worried .

Not sure we have enough information to comment on this (ie, how bad are the scratches).

Close-up pictures (without losing focus) would really help.

They are not very bad. but they are visible. What i am trying to know here is if the scratches on this part will make a difference ? I know this might be a critical part thats why concerned. I will try to get a picture today.

Are you talking about this

http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-shaft-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12799.hdx

or this

http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-starter-shaft-r30-raptor-30v2-50se-titan-p-12735.hdx ?

In any case, unless you can see metal protruding from the surface as a result of the scratch, or the scratch being too deep to affect the strength of the part, it should be OK. 

Grease helps ! I use the white lithium one at those places in my heli builds.

Thanks, This was the part i was talking about : http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-shaft-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12799.hdx

I guess the grease would 'fill-in' the scratch and i should be OK.

BTW could you help me find a Raptor 50 Titan build log / videos ? I guess that would help me immensly.

If you were wondering what i was upto, while waiting for the miniTItan parts i thought i would start with the Raptor 50 Titan build. I do not have the engine/gyros yet but rest everything i have. I will invest in the engine/gyro sometime later .

Quote from: gauravag on January 21, 2010, 09:31:30 AM
BTW could you help me find a Raptor 50 Titan build log / videos ? I guess that would help me immensly.

I have never built a Raptor from scratch myself (although I have helped tune and crash-fix them multiple times, as my brother has one, so does many others amongst our two fields). 

Looks like http://www.raptortechnique.com is the best resource.  Documents like below are very detailed.

http://www.raptortechnique.com/manual/rt_30-50v2_manual.pdf

I do wish if there were "Finless" Bob style detailed build videos for the same.  They helped me with my first 50 size heli build tremendously (on a Trex 600 Nitro Pro).

Right Raptor tecnique is the site

Quote from: eroto62 on January 21, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Right Raptor tecnique is the site

Welcome Eroto62 to RCI ! As you can see i am new to helis and currently flying a mini Titan and building a Raptor 50 so would be needing advice from everyone who is into Helis .
Your experience is valuable and look forward to your contribution.

No problem lemme know
I've been building and flying Raptors for the last 3 years

Quote from: anwar on January 21, 2010, 10:30:41 AM
I do wish if there were "Finless" Bob style detailed build videos for the same.  They helped me with my first 50 size heli build tremendously (on a Trex 600 Nitro Pro).

Here is the location of the "Finless" Bob videos.  Not only the builds and test flights of many models are documented, there are also many "general information regarding RC helicopters" type of videos, which I would highly recommend to any heli flyer.

http://helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

RaptorTechnique does indeed help. I had a bunch of general question while going through the build, and would be grateful if those experienced could help :

1. How much do you tighten the ball-screws - The screws that go through the Ball ( of the ball link). Should it be so much that the ball is not movable ?

2. The manual indicates that you use a drop of CA glue for screws that go into plastic. I find that these screws are tight enough, so would I still need the CA glue ? (RaptorTechnique guy says he hasnt used any )

3. Where you connect the feathering shaft through the main rotor hub, the manual says to use Vaseline or Silicon Oil on the Flap dampeners. Now these dampeners are of rubber, and I wouldn't want to use Vaseline. Where can i get Silicon Oil , or its substitute ?

4. When assembling the main rotor grips, and using the Thrust bearings, do i need to grease the thrust bearings, or are they OK as it is ?

5. Are Hitec 5485-HB servos ( 5.2kg advertised torque at 4.8V )- http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWCE5&P=ML enough for Raptor 50 ?

6. The manual states to use one-way grease on the clutch, however I an not sure where this would really be used. Should it be within the clutch housing that has a bearing that seems to go only in one direction http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12800.hdx ?

7. Where all should i use grease ? Anything on Clutch bell assembly ?

8. Any other tips or links would be greatly appreciated.

Overall, I am amazed at the number of bearings and small parts that comprise a heli. I am taking the time to go through the assembly and double checking my work. So far it seems to be going great. I am happy to have started a kit, this ways I know the part names and what-goes-where a lot than if I bought a readymade kit.

-Gaurav

I will skip the Raptor specific ones to people who have more build experience on that.

1. Yes, the ball links should not be movable. It is those plastic links that are snapped on to them that move. 

2. It is not that critical during the first build. But if you are removing and then tightening them again, there it becomes significant.

3. I have been using a brand known as "TriFlow", which is silicone based.  Not sure what are the Indian equivalents. I have seen Singer machine oil being suggested.

4. Yes, the middle one with the balls on it are typically greased.

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
Overall, I am amazed at the number of bearings and small parts that comprise a heli. I am taking the time to go through the assembly and double checking my work. So far it seems to be going great. I am happy to have started a kit, this ways I know the part names and what-goes-where a lot than if I bought a readymade kit.

 

I have got on the nerves of people here for claiming that building a heli from a kit is similar to building a plane from a kit.  Some people even claimed that one is not an "aeromodeller" unless one has has built planes from scratch. I giggled at them in my mind because I would have really loved to see their reactions when they try their first 50 size heli build, do the full radio setup on a CCPM heli and finally try to fly them 

It is an intense experience, and it is good to see a seasoned airplane person confirm that.

I have answered your doubts within your questions read below.....

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
1. How much do you tighten the ball-screws - The screws that go through the Ball ( of the ball link). Should it be so much that the ball is not movable ?

Yes it should be fixed so that it doesnt move - dont overtighten.

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
2. The manual indicates that you use a drop of CA glue for screws that go into plastic. I find that these screws are tight enough, so would I still need the CA glue ? (RaptorTechnique guy says he hasnt used any )

I havent used any either but it wouldnt harm to use it - youll just be safe that way

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
3. Where you connect the feathering shaft through the main rotor hub, the manual says to use Vaseline or Silicon Oil on the Flap dampeners. Now these dampeners are of rubber, and I wouldn't want to use Vaseline. Where can i get Silicon Oil , or its substitute ?

Silicon oil is available although vaseline isnt aproblem either

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
4. When assembling the main rotor grips, and using the Thrust bearings, do i need to grease the thrust bearings, or are they OK as it is ?

these bearings usually come greased but remember thrust bearings are smaller inner dia on one side and larger on the other. Check in the manual to see which side goes in. As far as I can remember the smaller dia goes towards the rotor blade

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
5. Are Hitec 5485-HB servos ( 5.2kg advertised torque at 4.8V )- http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWCE5&P=ML enough for Raptor 50 ?

To begin with they are fine later you might want to move with something that has 7kg

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
6. The manual states to use one-way grease on the clutch, however I an not sure where this would really be used. Should it be within the clutch housing that has a bearing that seems to go only in one direction http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12800.hdx ?

on the inner orifice of the clutch into which the clutch shaft goes

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
7. Where all should i use grease ? Anything on Clutch bell assembly ?

there is a part which attaches onto the clutch bell and has teeth on it put grease inside it - basically the starter shaft goes through this if you know what I mean

Quote from: gauravag on January 22, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
8. Any other tips or links would be greatly appreciated.

The raptor uses control of pitch into the rotor blades via the trailing edge of control. move the stuff around so the control goes in through the leading edge. I know this works as I have done it. you will need to flip a lot of the parts in the head. But since I notice you are a beginner its best to maybe leave it this way for now.

Glad to be of help

Quote from: anwar on January 22, 2010, 10:29:11 PM
It is an intense experience, and it is good to see a seasoned airplane person confirm that.

Exactly ! It is indeed an intense experience and I love it ! After so many years of building(scratch,kit,ARF) airplanes, its a good challenge for me to assemble this 50 size heli. Hopefully i will get it up all set up correctly.

Thank you Anwar and Eroto62 for your replies.
So far the build has progressed quite well, and I am at the point where i have the main frame, rotor head and tail boom assembled. Waiting to get an engine to complete the final assembly. I also need to install the servos and linkages.
I am glad i have, so far not lost a screw, or one of the million tiny parts that comprise a heli. Also when assembling, i open the part-bags and sort the stuff so I get to know the names of what is called what.Then i read the manual a couple of times before doing a dry-assembly .

One major difference between airplane and heli building is, that with airplanes, you actually "create" or "build" parts. Here its just a matter of assembling. Not that i say this does not require skills, but I feel airplane kit/scratch building gives you a higher satisfaction

I am enjoying the build thoroughly though, and i hope i will get this screw and ball bearing machine to actually hover one day.

Quote from: gauravag on January 25, 2010, 10:27:50 AM
One major difference between airplane and heli building is, that with airplanes, you actually "create" or "build" parts. Here its just a matter of assembling. Not that i say this does not require skills, but I feel airplane kit/scratch building gives you a higher satisfaction

It is a matter of perspective, right ?  If you think about the head of the heli being "a part", you are building/assembling that part; just as you build/assemble a wing from its parts.

The added fun is in scratch building (not building from kits), where you substitute parts with locally available material. That aspect is certainly missing in heli builds.  I guess it is compensated by the careful setup needed on helis

Lol ! Everything indeed is a matter of perspective

Couple of quick questions :
1. How and why is the governor used ? Is it recommended for a newbie to helis, like me ?
2. How do we measure the head RPM . I do have a tachometer that i used for airplanes.Can this be used ?

Thx !

any replies on this ? how to measure head RPM using an airplane tachometer ?
Also any way to balance the main rotor blades ?

Governor is used to maintain a constant headspeed on helis. This really helps in the case of nitro helis, where the engines can get damaged  either if they over rev, or if too much pitch loads the engines while it has not enough throttle/rpm.  Governors work by reading the actual rpm of the engine (usually from a magnet places on the engine cooling fan), and then adjusting the throttle servo to ensure that the engine is supplied with enough fuel to maintain the head speed regardless of the speed/orientation/pitch of the heli.  This allows for crisp 3D performance, at the same time safe guards the engine.  For a beginner, governors are barely "nice-to-have"s.  Just make sure your throttle curve is reasonable (and does not run into unsafely high headspeeds).

As far as tachs are concerned, there are multiple types, and their usage also varies.  The short answer is that you can typically use the same for both airplanes and helis.  How to use them depends on your specific model.

You can get little contraptions to balance the blades, there are other DIY methods, just search for them.  Typically I don't spend time on them, as we tend to buy pre-balanced ones.  The bigger issue one should worry about is "blade tracking", where one blade rotates at a different plane than the other (you can see two separate "disc"s made by each of the blades when you hover the heli at eye-level, instead of just one disc).

Recently I saw Bob Finless' video on Ball links.
I checked and saw that most of the links on my Raptor 50 are too tight.
Do you think i should bother to invest in a resizing tool and get a better fit on the links ?

Quote
I have got on the nerves of people here for claiming that building a heli from a kit is similar to building a plane from a kit.  Some people even claimed that one is not an "aeromodeller" unless one has has built planes from scratch. I giggled at them in my mind because I would have really loved to see their reactions when they try their first 50 size heli build, do the full radio setup on a CCPM heli and finally try to fly them 

It is an intense experience, and it is good to see a seasoned airplane person confirm that.

Quote from: gauravag on February 05, 2010, 07:05:22 PM
Recently I saw Bob Finless' video on Ball links.
I checked and saw that most of the links on my Raptor 50 are too tight.
Do you think i should bother to invest in a resizing tool and get a better fit on the links ?

You can resize them a bit if they are tight, but don't make them very loose. The Raptor links tend to loosen by themselves after a few flights.

Thanks Rajesh,
Would it matter if i didnt resize them at all ? They are a little tight but if you think they would loosen up with a few flights, then i should perhaps not bother with the resizing tool ?

Some times the links are too tight. It might feel twitchy if the linkage sticks. In such cases it is better to resize. Another thing to watch out is the battery drain. The servos have more work to do and could consume upto 400-450mAh per flight. When the links are smooth, it'll come down to about 300 or even less.