Quote from: sushil_anand on September 14, 2009, 06:07:21 PM
Exactly. And, in that case, there is no need for Team Futaba - or for that matter, any other - to be declared champions.

Of course, and I hope you do realize that X or Y being declared champions was just for the sake of fun. A "winner of arguments", for the sake of arguments only !  Nothing to do with technology or capabilities of any system versus another.

I have made it clear multiple times that no radio is foolproof / idiotproof /nirvana ! Obviously, the question of declaring champions would contradict that.

And I will defend any of the other brands with just same fervor, should the need arise !

Quote from: anwar on September 14, 2009, 04:34:19 PM

I have many PMs from members here for standing up and talking about a radio system they use in all environments daily, and have zero problems. I have PMs asking why are people so hostile towards 2.4, without any reason (like in the other forums). Finally, some people asked me to calm down; since the more I speak, people seem to bring up issues that are even more arcane ("corner cases", like in engineering design).  

ALL I WOULD SAY IF THIS BE THE CASE SORRY TO ALL THOSE WHOM I OFFENDED , WILL NOT REPEAT AGAIN IN FACT I GUESS IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR ME TO KEEP MY IDEAS AND VIEWS TO MYSELF


SAI

My responses here is not to judge others' intentions.  But we have to remember that speaking one's mind (with no ulterior motives at all) can easily mislead others, especially newcomers. That we have to be sensitive about, even when everything we say is true and honest. 

We just do not have enough data points and test results about the newer equipment.  The newer stuff (whatever brand) has not gone through the level of scrutiny as the others.  So comparison between them have to be done with utmost sensitivity.  We all know that the brands that are shining now were also newcomers at one time.  Over time, the better ones tend to prevail and will get even more users, others will get weeded out.  It may take a long time in some cases (like in the case of Sanwa/Airtronics, which is just not getting the attention is seems to deserve); but it will happen.

  no more discussions here henceforth.

Anwar ,
You are the one who seems to have taken this discussion out of context and got  mixed up OR taken it  personal   .

The futaba receiver heating problem : the discussion was not in this thread at all it was  an analysis made pertaining  Chan's Crash and the possible reasons for it , this was not to be any kind of casting aspersions on Futaba quite the contrary both Saju and me use Futaba radio's  and have been doing so for long.In fact Saju also has an Airtronics and myself a JR  hence between us we have most of the popular brands of radio's

So  please be rest assured we are not  against any brand as you make us out to be we are the type who don't mind experimenting  and thought  we would share our findings on the thread  for the benefit of all like in the case of RCG etc .

But from your  above post where people seem to have been upset   and PM'ed you rather than post their views on the forum and considering that as per you are sensitive , hence  I guess  such views are not appreciated here  by the vast majority  , hence up holding true democratic traditions from now on I would not  post such observations here and keep it to myself so as to keep the forum  a nice and happy place.

Further since you talk of sensitivities  you started a thread  writing off Mhz radio's as no good titled : Why FM radios ( 72 Mhz etc ) are not a good idea anymore ?
When you started this thread  we did not have Assan and other affordable 2.4 G alternatives available here in India so these were accessible only to those few who could import them.
So the only option  to start the hobby on a budget was to buy cheaper Mhz Radio's .

In such a case was you starting such a thread not being prejudiced , misleading  and insensitive to those who use them  including for beginners  who cannot afford 2.4 G  systems like Futaba / Spektrum/airtronics   ,

BTW me and Saju are not the only ones using these radio's here  so is this not being insensitive to the regular class aero modeler's who cannot afford OR choose not to switch to 2.4 G  ?

So if you think you are the defender of those who can't speak for themselves  then I will  say that you have also been insensitive in this case  as well .

I  have done my little bit towards making this hobby affordable in India in the past 2 years  so I am not some kind of devil's advocate against brands , but am always trying to push the envelope with affordable reliable alternative's  , if that hurts  branded products I am sorry I cannot help that , BTW I also sell Branded Products as well  .

sai

May be I am ! 

But from a third party angle, people would notice that until true criticism came about the Assan stuff, the thread was not "inconsequential" or "vain increase of post counts".  Or it could just be me again !   

Plus, it was fun !!!

My two bits worth on all this:

Guys who need to PM rather than post are not sure of themselves or gutless or both.

I personally feel that  Anwar  has come on a bit strong with a "me Tarzan, you Jane" attitude. I also feel him to be sincere but the manner misjudged and/or misplaced.

Sai. I see no reason for you to give up although I can well understand how you feel.

Is there a way to block the view of posts on a particular thread? Something like user settings...

Quote from: sushil_anand on September 15, 2009, 12:03:54 PM

I personally feel that  Anwar  has come on a bit strong with a "me Tarzan, you Jane" attitude. I also feel him to be sincere but the manner misjudged and/or misplaced.

  Not really bothered by such things , I guess the phenomenal growth of the forum in a short period is the cause for this feeling  . I do understand the situation  so no hard feelings from my side . One can get carried away .

But all the same Anwar has done a great job  that discussions can be this open  .

Sai 

Exactly, the forum is truly an open forum for discussion and nothing seems to read as personal. But can we similarly also discuss brands for batteries, servos, etc. in addition to just Txs. At least we learn what to buy and what not to buy.

Quote from: rcforall on September 15, 2009, 09:26:32 AM
Further since you talk of sensitivities  you started a thread  writing off Mhz radio's as no good titled : Why FM radios ( 72 Mhz etc ) are not a good idea anymore ?

So if you think you are the defender of those who can't speak for themselves  then I will  say that you have also been insensitive in this case  as well .

I started that list/thread only to prove the point that 72Mhz suffers from as much or more of the issues that you were digging into on the 2.4Ghz side, and I made it clear too.  The fact that on 72Mhz you are at the mercy of others is well known and understood, and people need to know that (in the odd case that did not know it already).

But saying that a plane kept in the shade crashed at 8am on a "NOT hot, cloudy day" in Chennai due to Futaba FASST heat issue, and then repeatedly claiming that Futaba FASST is risky for routine use because of that; I felt that was unjust and I responded to that.

Quote from: sushil_anand on September 15, 2009, 12:03:54 PM
Sai. I see no reason for you to give up although I can well understand how you feel.

Sai and I are very good friends, and I intend to carry it to my grave !

Quote from: rcforall on September 15, 2009, 01:26:37 PM
I guess the phenomenal growth of the forum in a short period is the cause for this feeling  . I do understand the situation  so no hard feelings from my side . One can get carried away .

The forums success or growth has nothing to do with this thread/subject. I would do the same in any other forum, as some of you may have seen already. I do feel that it is nice to have no fear of censorship here.


In summary....

I felt something is unjust (so did some others), and I spoke up. I will do it again !  Anybody else is welcome to do that too

Moving on to batteries...  Which brand do you like Sai, so that I can start with another one ?

being sensitive 

QuoteExactly, the forum is truly an open forum for discussion and nothing seems to read as personal.

Please note that there is a  difference between being or read as personal and a personal opinion.

Most opinions, would, by nature, be personal, based on their knowledge and experience.

Quote from: sushil_anand on September 15, 2009, 12:03:54 PM

Guys who need to PM rather than post are not sure of themselves or gutless or both.

Sushil ,
I agree and would advice them to let the shirt down and enjoy life  even at the risk of increased PM activity for Anwar 

It could also be that they are not used to such "freedom" !  

Or even more likely, they thought that someone is already voicing their opinion, so why jump into the fray ?

Not speaking up does not mean "gutless". You can be in any team and offer support and advise, but does not necessarily have to be vocal about it.

QuoteNot speaking up does not mean "gutless".

Speaking up in private and not in the (public) forum, would surely indicate a fear of "standing up and being counted."

It could also be a sign of modesty, especially when others (for example, Ismail) are already expressing disinterest in the thread/discussion

I am not sure if a lot of "me too"s would add any value to such discussions, unless of course they had something new/unique to contribute to the subject matter.

Hey Anwar,

While some of us are arguing about whether to move to 2.4GHz or not, another thread is started on 2.4GHz becoming obsolete.

One thought for the proponents of the MHz models might be like "why change? its going to become obsolete anyways"

cheers

Pankaj

The main reasons for change from Mhz to 2.4Ghz is the avoidance of frequency conflicts.  2.4Ghz is also less prone to other types of interferences due to the nature of the "spread spectrum" technology it is based on.  The convenience of not having to ask around before take off would be significant to many, especially in crowded fields. And these reasons are valid right now.

Asking whether one should stay on Mhz because 2.4Ghz would become obsolete some day in the future is analogous to "would you not buy or upgrade to a Suzuki Swift from an Ambassador, because the Swift will be obsolete some day?".  Even that is not a completely correct analogy, because there are better cars than the Swift today, but we do not have a better technology than 2.4 right now (I mean mass market ones).

what is available now only can be taken.  you dont postpone the purchase of your first  mobile phone because 3g comes after 2 years then only i will buy. the same logic applies. free your mind be happy with what is there. all said and done we all are flying. better to fly with peace of mind. happy flying.

Yesterday, a flier experienced TOTAL control failure on his  brand new FUTABA 10 CAG + 617 FS. He had an earlier flight without problem. The battery was a 6V - 2650 NiMh pack, about 8 flights old and fully charged the previous day.

After the crash, the radio system was found to be functioning normally.

What can one look for except the usual culprits that have been eliminated already.

1. Was the voltage of the receiver pack verified after the crash (not just trusting the previous night's attempt to charge was fully successful).

2. Are all servos still working well ?  Any that are stuck etc ?  Would any linkages be stuck at extremities of stick movement, causing high amp draw ?

3. Was the model kept in the sun prior to flight, and was it a hot day with bright sun ?

4. Is the flier being totally truthful ?  Did he lose control while doing simple routines, or was the aircraft  already in a bad orientation when the crash happened, and it is easy to blame the radio for not being able to recover ?    (No disrespect, but I have seen this attitude multiple times).

5. Any lose contacts/connections in the wiring ?

6. Finally, put the same receiver on a less worthy plane, and try flying it a few times.

Quote from: sushil_anand on October 14, 2009, 04:50:58 PM
What can one look for except the usual culprits that have been eliminated already.

So many possibilities and things. I have had a crash on 2.4G Futaba 2 years back,when 2.4G was new but then Futaba admitted their fault and replaced it. Now, i would say that the usual culprits be scrutinised more before really blaming the radio. There are so many factors. Here is a small list that i would start off with :
1. Ensure if it was really control failure or lack of orientation etc.
2. After crash, check battery/connecters. Discharge battery and note voltage/current
3. Check if there was a control surface/linkage failure or any structural failure
4. Check antenna placements / vibration of model

All this has probably been discussed before. Without indepth details and first hand information nothing can be said here.

Quote
1. Ensure if it was really control failure or lack of orientation etc.
2. After crash, check battery/connecters. Discharge battery and note voltage/current
3. Check if there was a control surface/linkage failure or any structural failure
4. Check antenna placements / vibration of model

1. The Tx was taken over by a very experienced pilot. No control possible.
2. Checked/OK
3. Checked/OK
4. Checked/ No obvious problem

Quote
1. Was the voltage of the receiver pack verified after the crash (not just trusting the previous night's attempt to charge was fully successful).

2. Are all servos still working well ?  Any that are stuck etc ?  Would any linkages be stuck at extremities of stick movement, causing high amp draw ?

3. Was the model kept in the sun prior to flight, and was it a hot day with bright sun ?

4. Is the flier being totally truthful ?  Did he lose control while doing simple routines, or was the aircraft  already in a bad orientation when the crash happened, and it is easy to blame the radio for not being able to recover ?    (No disrespect, but I have seen this attitude multiple times).

5. Any lose contacts/connections in the wiring ?

6. Finally, put the same receiver on a less worthy plane, and try flying it a few times.

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Was an overcast day.

4. Agree with you. Very will admit to "finger trouble". But, as above, an experienced flier took over the controls.

5. Re-checked after the crash - vertical dive into the ground, engine possibly damaged, radio worked - and still does - fine.

6. He'll need to find a plane one would not worry about writing off ! But I suppose that's all one can do now.

Quote from: sushil_anand on October 14, 2009, 05:34:37 PM
1. The Tx was taken over by a very experienced pilot. No control possible.

That itself is a bit weird.  Usually, the amount of time required for a physical hand off of the radio is always problematic, and has mixed success.  Of course, a buddy cable setup is much better, and generally works (assuming it has been well tested before the flight). The person taking over usually gets very little time to react, unless the model was doing some kind of level flight or going up.