My interest as well as that of many other people (maybe silent). Ask them who want to be a member of such clubs in order to be able to fly and see their reaction. I am not forcing anybody to write anything. I am only a junior member here

These folks do not want to be a member of any club (not even where they take lead and form one) for two main reasons.
1. They will have to follow rules
2. They will have to contribute money
There are plenty who just wish to do whatever they want to, and do it free of cost. Not just this hobby, but the country at large is full of such souls.

And are you saying that you represent the voice of the silent souls? I doubt it seriously. On the other hand AMAI has a member base and can as such say they represent the voice of it's members.                   
If you wish to truly represent the voice of those who you think are silent, go ahead form an organization/club whatever and get yourself accredited by ACI. Then you or the spokesman of the club/organization can truly represent the voice of it's members.

Till then you will be seen as a subversive element               

True. We want to follow the rules framed by the government...not by the clubs which are places of vested interests.

And money? Why pay money to somebody else. We can invest that in the hobby.

Plain and simple.

And so far as subversion is concerned...ok..fine..whatever

See the second sentence clearly proves my both points. Good night and see you tomorrow 

Great...and if you want to fatten up the purse of some clubs...go ahead and do it sir

I'd rather spend it on the hobby

@santanucus

Bottom line is weather you like it or not some guideline is going to come out imposing major restrictions, which you have no option but to adhere to. Its just lucky that the authorities have cared to ask all concerned, when they could have just issued it.

That's not the end of it. Its just now DGCA has decided to walk into the domain of recreational flying of model aircraft where we were so comfortable so long with the same perspective of Initial days of FAA. FAA too had changed its perspective with its experience gained for online registration. That's still not final. Which will also be improved upon in due course of time with the experience gained and DGCA too will improve upon the guidelines as time goes with various representations and experience gained on the go.

Out of the 10 Highly active clubs claimed earlier by me close to 07 are functioning with no contribution from members as a community effort. That proves your claim on money angle wrong. The 2-3 functioning with member contributions are the ones involved in organizing national level events of the Recreational flying of Model Aircrafts. That again proves your money angle wrong.

@sundaram...I am all for restrictions. I have already posted my earlier letters to DGCA...even those written in DGCA and the current suggestions to DGCA.

What I am AGAINST is an attempt made by some clubs to control the hobby and speaking against our interests. That's why I decided to write to DGCA against that. And many members agree in private as well as in public.

So what's the problem? Let DGCA decide.

I have no problems whatsoever with your decision on being the DGCA Mole or a lonesome flier    Read it for the third time definitely giving that impression.

And I am getting the impression that there is some hidden commercial interests involved in making such representations seeking powers for AMAI which is a private body. But anyway...you are free to do it as I am doing mine. No issues.

Good night. 

Good night too 

Today is the final day for submitting comments on the DGCA draft circular. Members who have not done so already are requested to submit their informed opinion to DGCA by today.

1. Here is the DGCA draft circular: http://dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20circular/AT_Circular%20-%20Civil_UAS(Draft%20April%202016).pdf

I have already sent mine. If anyone needs to refer to it, here is the file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6UgXTZBN0sCYXJhRWhuWElOZHM

Note: You may need to change certain points which were specific to my case. Please read it thoroughly before amending it. This letter is addressed to the DG. You can also change the addressee to the address given at the bottom if you do not want to send the main copy to DG.

2. You may be aware that AMAI has recommended a draft for its members. It is available at https://www.facebook.com/groups/368147636684009/

Unfortunately AMAI is going to suggest that membership of an aeromodelling club be made mandatory for flying a model aircraft. This, along with certain other points will put severe restrictions on an individual's ability to pursue the hobby and to fly recreationally. Although it is not specific, AMAI's recommendations also appear biased against multi-rotors, FPV etc. Please read their recommendations carefully and form your own opinion.

3. As it is apparent that AMAI's move impinges upon the individual's right to fly, I am planning to send another letter to DGCA today which counters the suggestions put forth by AMAI. Those who support the move may read the letter carefully and form their own opinion.

Here is the letter: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6UgXTZBN0sCZnI0TFpiaWlNelk

4. The address to which the letters are to be sent/mailed:

Shri Lalit Gupta,
Joint Director General,
Office of the Director General of Civil Aviation,
Opp. Safdarjung Airport,
Aurobindo Marg, New Delhi 110 003.

email:    

Shri Lalit Gupta,
Joint Director General,
Office of the Director General of Civil Aviation,
Opp. Safdarjung Airport,
Aurobindo Marg, New Delhi 110 003.

email of DG:

You have still not buried the hatchet against AMAI.    

Sense prevailed in you only till your first draft. Before you are doing any more damage to the community as a whole Let me attempt to excite your intellect to get the grip on the concept.

Quote from: santanucus on May 20, 2016, 08:45:58 PM
@sundaram... I am just bothered with flying my multirotors in whichever airspace law permits.

@santanucus I am sure most of you are with no clue as to what's that airspace law permits involves in identifying or obtaining or getting permission from whom. Would you even care to elaborate for benefit of the fora on how you propose to identify and obtain such heavenly space which law permits. I absolutely insist before one more word of blame from you on others You have not even cared to address the issue with DGCA in any of your post. Limited to your intellect you just presumed the limited unoccupied open space next to your hut is a air space law permits like every other nuisance monger How so convenient for the ever so lazy common man of India who does not even want to get out of his hammock

The Draft DGCA Guideline is very explicit on how to go about it for commercial operation. I hope you are not considering adopting it.

When most of you are so poor that you are absolutely petrified on the very thought of just so that you know the remotest possibility of   memberships of few thousand Rupees, can't expect you to own 100 acres of private land. If its not yours or the students or the scratch builders, then it belongs to a third party or the govt's who's privacy or the space you will be infringing upon illegally.  Mind you all those who own 100 acres of land who are in the hobby already own turbine jets like me in the lakhs. Cake walk for them to obtain UIN or UAOP. Its jokers like you who can't even afford a memberships are actually creating nuisance by infringing on some body else's space which do not belong to you or obtained permission for flying with all sorts of monkeying around.

Please get your head out of this hole that someone is compelling you for membership fees. Please see MAA, PAA, Indore club, Noida club, Gurgaon Club, and many more..... not just AMA or Wings India

You did not even care to read this part under my recommendation in PS

Quote from: sundaram on May 19, 2016, 12:47:46 PM
PS : Its Mandatory for even the Last Bastion of Security of this Country when it proceeds for Training firing in its own feild firing ranges away from any civilization to give an intimation of training firing activity to the local Police before commencing the firing activity.

Is is not mandatory to inform local police for any community activity in your village.

What if every Joker and every loansome loony flier like you in every town decided to exhibit his PDA for rc flying in his heavenly space which he thinks law permits to his understanding. Worse case scenario is one each for every lonesome loony in the same village just because he is beyond control.

is it not the root cause of original problem that every lonesome loonies decides to exhibit his PDA for RC flying in his heavenly space which he thinks law permits


Would it not be easy for the community if you were organized into Aeromodellers Club like Mizoram Aeromodellers Club and carved out recognition and space for the activity amongst to deal with local authority.

Would it not give more recognition and credence for the aeromodellers Club of Institution or College in dealing with local authorities.

Would't it give the RC community opportunity to nurture the lonesome loonies under their wing and guide and give them environment to grow in this hobby.

Would't it not be easier for the clubs to interact with local Law enforcement authorities for permissions. Would't the Club give the community more recognition and identity when dealing with authorities.

AMAI has just attempted to put in place guidelines for all clubs and education institutions to obtain permissions for such spaces which law permits and much desired recognition and credence for the already existing clubs. Is it that difficult for you to wrap your head around the concept.

I can understand your ever so compelling urge to infringe on the space belonging to a third party for that golden moments of photography of someone else property.

In the times of storm one loose cannon like you is enough to blow major hole in the hull of this ship of RC Community. I presume you already have done irreparable damage to the years of hard work of all the clubs, who were already functioning successfully with much recognition with your irresponsible assumptions.  

Its absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable that without even completely understanding the intention of the other party trying to make a complete mockery of good work done by all aeromodellors clubs all over India.

Not a word more from you against any club for that matter before you clarify your stand on how do you propose to identify and obtain that piece of heavenly space which law permits for everyone to fly.

You even think that your perception is any better than any seasoned hobbyist who has been in this field for years together and you have absolutely no respect at all for the seniors in the RC Community. I am a six year old baby only in RC arena not in life, Its a pity that you even consider yourself worthy enough to contest my perception.  

PS : Do read the above twice thrice and attempt to understand before you even think that you have anything to respond to the above.

PSS : Given some more time to marinate this issue, we ever so melodramatic Indians would have got our differences of caste colour, creed, community, language, religion, region also into this. Don't they all call us as the bucket filled with crabs.

@Sundaram, thanks for trying your best to convince all how being controlled by a club is good for us. I am not buying it (with my dim wit) as long as AMAI sticks to its narrow perspective. Period.

DGCA has enough intelligent people to decide whether I am loony, lonesome or dimwitted or whether clubs like AMAI have vested interests.

Your firing range analogy is ridiculous. So I better not comment on it. Firing bullets and flying a UA is the same thing, I guess

QuoteWhen most of you are so poor that you are absolutely petrified on the very thought of just so that you know the remotest possibility of   memberships of few thousand Rupees, can't expect you to own 100 acres of private land. If its not yours or the students or the scratch builders, then it belongs to a third party or the govt's who's privacy or the space you will be infringing upon illegally.  Mind you all those who own 100 acres of land who are in the hobby already own turbine jets like me in the lakhs. Cake walk for them to obtain UIN or UAOP. Its jokers like you who can't even afford a memberships are actually creating nuisance by infringing on some body else's space which do not belong to you or obtained permission for flying with all sorts of monkeying around.

Your frustration is causing you to write incoherent and irrelevant things. I don't care how many acres of land you have, you much money you have, what post you hold, how superior you are from me, how big an aircraft you own. Frankly I care a hoot. People flaunt wealth when they lose their dignity. By saying all these, you have destroyed yours. Your argument now boils down to this: You are rich and I am poor.So I have to submit to you. Perfect argument ! I hope the members here will enjoy this argument

Loonies and dimwitted lonesome people can't understand your intelligent argument. I think US is full of such loonies. That's why they adopted easier rules. In India we have intelligent people like you who, with their greater perception, want to control others.

I have debated enough on this issue and will not do so further unless AMAI changes its stance. Period. But what makes you so afraid, I wonder? This is a democratic country. Any loony and lonesome people can write anything. DGCA don't have loonies, do they? You give your argument to DGCA. I give mine. Let them decide.

Quote from: sundaram on May 21, 2016, 09:14:03 AM

Quote from: santanucus on May 20, 2016, 08:45:58 PM
@sundaram... I am just bothered with flying my multirotors in whichever airspace law permits.

@santanucus I am sure most of you are with no clue as to what's that airspace law permits involves in identifying or obtaining or getting permission from whom. Would you even care to elaborate for benefit of the fora on how you propose to identify and obtain such heavenly space which law permits.

Is not mandatory to inform local police for any community activity in your village.

is it not the root cause of original problem that every lonesome loonies decides to exhibit his PDA for RC flying in his heavenly space which he thinks law permits


In the times of storm one loose cannon like you is enough to blow major hole in the hull of this ship of RC Community. I presume you already have done irreparable damage to the years of hard work of all the clubs, who were already functioning successfully with much recognition with your irresponsible assumptions.  

Its absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable that without even completely understanding the intention of the other party trying to make a complete mockery of good work done by all aeromodellors clubs all over India.

Not a word more from you against any club for that matter before you clarify your stand on how do you propose to identify and obtain that piece of heavenly space which law permits for everyone to fly.

As long as you don't have a single word to contribute on how to obtain this heavenly piece of land which law permits for everyone to fly.

What gave you the impression that you speak for everyone else. You are just a common selfish nuisance monger who is just not interested in anybody else interest but himself. You are "The Nuisance Monger" who is the root cause of this entire problem.

Quote from: santanucus on May 21, 2016, 09:44:53 AM
I have debated enough on this issue and will not do so further

Don't even attempt to till such time you have a better solution to everyone's problem of Space permitted by law. Only your foolishness will be exposed more.

Go ahead just attempt your dim wit to answer that pertinent question. The answer will pop right out as "Granted"

Prove me entirely wrong in my assumption by coming out with a better solution to the problem of space which law permits. Do you even have the moral courage to attempt that question.

Don't let everyone else here get convinced here that you lack that moral courage or the intellect to come out with a solution for that problem of everyone else.

Quote from: sundaram on May 21, 2016, 09:14:03 AM

When most of you are so poor that you are absolutely petrified on the very thought of just so that you know the remotest possibility of   memberships of few thousand Rupees, can't expect you to own 100 acres of private land. If its not yours or the students or the scratch builders, then it belongs to a third party or the govt's who's privacy or the space you will be infringing upon illegally.  Mind you all those who own 100 acres of land who are in the hobby already own turbine jets like me in the lakhs. Cake walk for them to obtain UIN or UAOP. Its jokers like you who can't even afford a memberships are actually creating nuisance by infringing on some body else's space which do not belong to you or obtained permission for flying with all sorts of monkeying around.

Your frustration is causing you to write incoherent and irrelevant things. It also convinces me (again) that decency does not come with rank or money. Decency comes with real education which you appear to be lacking. I don't care how many acres of land you own, you much money you have, what post you hold, how superior you are from me, how big an aircraft you own. Frankly I care a hoot about your wealth. People flaunt wealth when they lose their dignity. By saying all these, you have destroyed yours. Your argument now boils down to this: You are rich and I am poor.So I have to submit to you. Perfect argument ! I hope the members here will enjoy this argument

Quote from: santanucus on May 21, 2016, 10:13:21 AM
Your frustration is causing you to write incoherent and irrelevant things. Frankly I care a hoot.

My Frustration!!! that fact pretty much got you frustrated. While you are at it no one is stopping you to fight for a free RC Airplane too from the govt to fly along with the permission.  

By the way that was just an attempt to get your grip on the concept of open spaces to fly and your lack of ownership of those. And You claim of a better education than me. What the hell gave you that idea.  

Quote from: santanucus on May 21, 2016, 10:13:21 AM
It also convinces me that decency does not come with rank or money. Decency comes with real education which you appear to be lacking.

Yes I know you have neither Money, Status, Rank nor the decency. yes the perfect psych profiling for the one with least at stake here and absolutely allergic to any form of control

Prove me wrong in your claim that you have at least the Education buddy by attempting to answer the question

Its pretty clear that you lack the intellect for a better solution to the problem of space permitted by law. Frankly you don't have to make it any more loud and clear about that and you care a hoot about any body else'e interest but yourself. We get that pretty clear.

i hope dgca listens to no one and blindly copies FAA, that is better than what any of us could come up with so far.

Quote from: pravesh736 on May 21, 2016, 10:22:40 AM
i hope dgca listens to no one and blindly copies FAA, that is better than what any of us could come up with so far.

If they blindly copied FAA ...nothing better than that ! If they did, we'd probably have no need to open this thread. Unfortunately they didn't

Quote from: pravesh736 on May 21, 2016, 10:22:40 AM
i hope dgca listens to no one and blindly copies FAA, that is better than what any of us could come up with so far.

What gave you the impression that FAA's model is the perfect solution Pravesh. It is still grappling with lot of issues including privacy concerns of Registrants.

Its not perfect, its better than our nonsense.
registrants info is easily available online because they are automated, ours isnt that much. they can always omit that which faa may do too eventually.

Now DGCA is looking like an angel if you see what kind of restrictions AMAI has suggested.

Neither FAA is better nor our's is a nonsense Pravesh. If every regional body becomes more active like MAA. Its a perfect solution.

Either the law is ready to turn a blind eye to every Shantanu or Subhanjan who decides to Exhibit his PDA for his hobby in some corner of country which he thinks is the heavenly space permitted by law. If not then its better to get the Shantanu or Subhanjan to the actual space permitted by law with the community effort.

How much more do you expect yourself to fly with that fear that Some Subhanjan is going to step out the line and infringing someone else's privacy or property with or without the Registration numbers just because he does't like to be controlled and you are going to be grounded.


PS : @santanucus Now that you have claimed better education than me I hope that you are working on a better solution to the space permitted by law for everyone here. Just because you don't have one that does not mean you will beat around the bush to make us accept DGCA Solution. I have already expressed my apprehension in you of being the DGCA mole.

Quote from: sundaram on May 21, 2016, 11:15:41 AM
I have already have expressed my apprehension in you of being the DGCA mole.

I'd rather be a "sarkari" DGCA mole than have vested interests as AMAI mole  

I being the "sarkari" DGCA mole suggested this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6UgXTZBN0sCYXJhRWhuWElOZHM
And look in my signature what private mole has suggested.

Now decide...do you like a sarkari mole or a private mole?