@TRA well thought out comments which covers requirements of hobby community aptly.

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@TRA - very well and articulately put.

Quote from: TRA on May 28, 2016, 06:53:34 PM
Thanks for bringing this up. It contradicts a bill, which is not law yet. We are commenting on the bill as well from the perspective of UA operations. It is important to have certain end-use linked exceptions to the GIR Bill.   

That would be great !

@TRA your comments are very good and I really appreciate it but there is a problem. According to what you have said if any individual wants to fly then it will become really difficult for him. The comments which you've given are really good for people who are from cities but what about people who are from towns? Those guys only fly individually because there is no one to accompany them. It would be difficult for them to travel to cities and join a aeromodelling club.
These are just my views.

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@ Nitesh The main agenda of all our comments was to get the legitimacy of the hobby activity which we pursue where we fly.

Flying alone with a wish to fly wherever one wants too will never get you the legitimacy or the recognition of hobby activity but has every potential to be looked down upon critically as nuisance to others be it village or a town.

Legitimacy can only be established with prior permission of all stakeholders of property where we fly and law. As long as you are striving for this you will always have legality and you have already established a fledgling pseodo local club.

Where there is a will there will always be a way.

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Well Sir other than the above mentioned problem which I had posted I don't find any other problem in thee comments which were posted by TRA. In fact I found them to be better than most other solutions suggested in this thread earlier. You've clarified the question which I was having in my mind.

But still the question remains, what will happen to the aeromodellers of villages and towns. You are right that legitimacy can't be obtained without getting permissions.
I have just one suggestion. The person who is from a town or a village can become a member of the nearest aeromodelling club. He/she can then find a place to fly which is "safe". He/she can then get the permission to fly from the owner of that land. He/she can then send the official document about the permission stuff to the aeromodelling club to approve and then the aeromodelling club can then get dgca's permission and then send him/her the paper which days about the legitimacy and legality stuff.
I know that this is a lengthy process.

I also have one more suggestion i.e. the aeromodelling club should get the flying field to be declared safe to fly from the dgca.

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I endorse Nitish's viewpoint

Why should one have to be a member of a club?

One should be able to get online permission from Aero Club of India, period. The consequences of giving wrong information in the application should be ..... severe, to say the least

Its only in the interests of the clubs that all people should become members of the clubs. Power, money, control, vested interests. And making complex rules is one of the ways to achieve this end. Simple rules are for USA which has faced 9/11: Pay $5 and you can fly as long as you follow the rules. No clubs required. But in India, even in the cases where restrictions have not been proposed by the Government, these clubs will hammer the Government to impose restrictions, so that their control is established.

Interesting Case Study: Inform police every time you fly. Government/DGCA did not suggest this. Who suggests? AMAI. Why? To make flying by individuals impossible. How many time would you go to the police and inform them that you want to fly your RC aircraft for 10 minutes? Join the club...we have "setting" with the police. Without us you won't even get permission. And even if you, the puny park flier, manage to get permission once in a while, how many times would you manage to do that before you get fed up? Case closed  

Sorry for calling a spade a spade.

I was thinking this.
I'll give an example to say this.
In Chennai generally, people fly in 3 locations. One is Medavakkam, the other is Kovalam and the final one is Sholavaram.
The flying which is done in Kovalam is mainly under RCForall or MUAV. They fly there regularly. Now what I am saying is RCForall should take the responsibility and form a club for people who fly in Kovalam, they can get the field registered from  dgca. Dgca can set up an online portal and people can submit details about their flying fields, DGCA can then later on approve the fields. In medavakkam as of now what I know there are two to three guys flying every sunday. In these two three guys someone can take up the responsiblity and get their flying field registered. In Sholavaram there are many flyers including some guys from popular lhs's. Those guys can set up a club.

One thing which can also be done is that all lhs should take up a major responsibillity and setup a flying spot in their cities. They can partner with different LHS and also do this. This will help in their sales and also hwlp their customers.

There can also be one more thing, a national body can be set up which is not in "favour to a particular group". The flying locations can be sent to them and then they can apply to dgca or the national body representing aeromodelling can themselves approve the flying locations.

Vibranthobbies, RCSportz and RCBazaar Chennai are you listening???

About those guys who fly in villages a possible slutiuon to their problem is given in my earlier post.

More than registering members I think it is more important that recreational flyers don' fly in the cities, it is more important to register flying locations. I am not saying registering flyers is not important it is just a teeny but less important than registering airfields.

Clubs can be good, they can also help us. Read the comments by TRA to understand how clubs can be good and how registering airfields can be good.

@Santanucus it's not necessary that clubs are bad.

Registering a flying field with DGCA and allowing hobby enthusiasts to fly in these premises unhindered without the riders of DGCA Registration of model or the individual fliers is a great idea to moot Nitesh. I appreciate the benefits which comes along. Great idea. Nitesh

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Quote from: rcrcnitesh on May 29, 2016, 06:02:02 PM
@Santanucus it's not necessary that clubs are bad.

Not necessarily. Unless they give proposals like informing police every time you fly. The hidden agenda behind such a proposal is palpable.

However, I like your idea about a national body approved by the government. This has to be given a serious thought. Did anyone propose this to DGCA? I don't think any club proposed it because they are concerned with their own interests.

As for the issue of flying in the city, not every city has got the same issue. For example in Kolkata, there is a vast open area of a few square miles at the city centre known as Maidan. Also members of some RC club, probably AMAI, fly at the race course near the Maidan on Sundays. So all places within the city do not necessarily mean congested areas. Maybe flying fields in cities should be demarcated wherever possible. But there are other areas in the city which have open spaces where flying is possible. Registering all such areas is not possible.

Thank god for the vision and forethought of Britisher's, Engineers and Town planners of EIC they left roads wide 200ft or more wherever they planned cities even in 18th and early 19th century.

We were much happy with our bullock kart those days.

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I suggest going with the FAA guidelines.
It will allow us to fly atleast 500 mts high and also 5 km range.
Im a hobby photographer.
I need those height and range for a good trip video.
I think my fellow hobby photographers would like it too.
And also lisence for under 4 kg quads should have most benifits in licensing

Quote from: akki on June 01, 2016, 08:23:02 PM
Im a hobby photographer.
I need those height and range for a good trip video.
I think my fellow hobby photographers would like it too.

Photography from any UAV would be illegal if the Geospatial Information bill is passed.

Quote from: santanucus on June 01, 2016, 08:46:42 PM

Quote from: akki on June 01, 2016, 08:23:02 PM
Im a hobby photographer.
I need those height and range for a good trip video.
I think my fellow hobby photographers would like it too.

Photography from any UAV would be illegal if the Geospatial Information bill is passed.

Come on bro, this will be a true set back for us the photographers.
Actually, we have to think about a work around solution for this problem.
I'm sure there are many interested areal photographers in this forum.

And i just check it on internet. That bill is just for generating and publishing map data.
Its not for photographs restriction.

Quote“Geospatial Information” means geospatial imagery or data acquired through space or aerial platforms such as satellite, aircrafts, airships, balloons, unmanned aerial vehicles including value addition; or graphical or digital data depicting natural or man-made physical features, phenomenon or boundaries of the earth or any information related thereto including surveys, charts, maps, terrestrial photos referenced to a co-ordinate system and having attributes;

Quote(1)Save as otherwise provided in this Act, rules or regulations made thereunder, or with the general or special permission of the Security Vetting Authority, no person shall acquire geospatial imagery or data including value addition of any part of India either through any space or aerial platforms such as satellite, aircrafts, airships, balloons, unmanned aerial vehicles or terrestrial vehicles, or any other means whatsoever.
(2) Every person who has already acquired any geospatial imagery or data of any part of India either through space or aerial platforms such as satellite, aircrafts, airships, balloons, unmanned aerial vehicles or terrestrial vehicles or any other manner including value addition prior to coming of this Act into effect, shall within one year from the commencement of this Act,make an application alongwith requisite fees to the Security Vetting Authority for retaining such geospatial information and grant of licence thereof.

Could this mean you are fine as long as you don't geotag your pictures? I am not sure. This won't hurt the wedding photographers but for those who do surveying/ mapping using UAVs it will be a problem.

I had read that definition part many times and also read news articles such as http://thewire.in/2016/05/07/geospatial-bill-another-attempt-to-control-the-free-flow-of-information-34505/ . All depends on the definition of "Geospatial Information".

As you can see from the news article at the URL mentioned by me above, they have defined "Geospatial Information" as "...means geospatial imagery or data....." etc. But they have not clearly defined what "Geospatial Imagery or data" exactly means. Everything depends upon it. And the drafting is also bad.

I hope the term "Geospatial Imagery" is clarified in the final bill as otherwise people may have to depend on the definition in technical literature or dictionary and sooner or later it has to be settled by a court judgement.

So, what @akki has said and @SK1701 has interpreted may be true but there is a thin line on which we are treading here.  For example, if police catches someone filming from a UAV fitted with a GPS, it can be argued by them that what has been shot is a potential geospatial imagery and one can always link that image later with spatial coordinates from phone data or flight log data.

Suppose you shoot a video or a still photo of Taj Mahal from a UAV and post it on YouTube or Facebook. Even if you do not mention the coordinates, doesn't it become a geospatial image because people know the coordinates of Taj Mahal from existing maps and hence your photo and video can easily be associated with geospatial information. Somebody may even post your pictures/video in sites like Google Earth with or without your consent. Doesn't mere mentioning of the name of the location in your post make it a geospatial image?

I hope that since many legal experts and others are already up in arms against the bill, these lacunae will be pointed out and the final draft will clearly specify what is exactly meant by "geospatial imagery". If that is not done, there is every chance that any kind of photography of any open area done using UAVs will be in the danger of classified as geospatial information.

Any update???
What going on there???

Nothing visible. Government process is slow. If they care to read all the comments, it will take them at least a couple of months. Redrafting and approval could, by itself, could take 3 months, if not more.

Hi,

I wanted to let you know about this petition I just started on Change.org, "Directorate of General Civil Aviation (DGCA): Immediate Govt. regulation change regarding recreational Rc flying".
You can read more about it and sign the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/directorate-of-general-civil-aviation-dgca-immediate-govt-regulation-change-regarding-recreational-rc-flying?recruiter=456616274

It's for the general benefit.

This is what I was talking about in my earlier posts.
Hats off RCBazaar. 

Check their latest post on facebook. http://www.facebook.com/RcBazaarbangalore?fref=ts

Draft DGCA guidelines !!!! Who are we to draft guidelines Dgca is there. Its instituted , let them draft

I think the reference is to lobbying, we the aeromodelling community having a vested interest

Any update on this guys ?
Is the DGCA really working on it, or we simply keep on flying illegally ?