I am very concerned with all this.
But it would be nice to simplify all the things.
Its very difficult to understand.

Quote from: Voice of deaf on May 23, 2016, 07:07:55 PM
I am very concerned with all this.
But it would be nice to simplify all the things.
Its very difficult to understand.

That's the whole purpose ! Things are deliberately made complicated so that people wouldn't be able to understand it and it would be easy to control them. Lawyers and middlemen would have a field day and make money by mediating between you and the government. If rules are simple, they won't be able to make money and control you. So they would try their utmost so that complex rules are made.

Well.... forming some sort of a club or joining a club be excellent as the responsibility will be of the club to control the members and so the members will need to toe the right line.... This will probably also help the security agencies to keep better control on their activities....

So coming back to where I was from Reply # 398 on the real dog in the fight with biggest bone of contention. "Payload.". The FPV Park flier Category.

Let me summarize the flying style of this dog in us. If you see any of the Youtube video of this dog you will agree.

1.    He is not limited to the VLOS range of few hundred meters like any other category of fliers. He is just comfortable at any range of reach even if it's without clear data down link or radio link he can enable RTH, fly autonomous and reach back home from any range.

2.   He is not restricted like the rest of the category by the dire need for a runway to take off or a clear spaces to fly. Even the simple park flier needs a clear space to fly even if he can hand launch.

3.   He does not need a spotter or a buddy to watch out for other fliers in the field like the rest of the category. He can just fly at ease among his clan without any coach or a spotter.

4.   Unlike the rest of the category of flier who always fly standing at ease with his two feet planted firmly on ground always facing the model aircraft while flying, this dog flies from anywhere. From under a tree shade sitting reclined/lying on an easy chair at field, from inside a car with AC on, even from inside a building with AC on.  

5.   Unlike the rest of category, he is just not threatened by the obstructions in the field like trees, building, or the people inside his flying space. In fact, because its first person views perspective of flying, his real fun starts when he is within these obstructions. Rest of the category of fliers are even threatened by the disturbance by the spectator in the field and at max 5-6 flier can fly at one time in the field. They are even threatened by this dog when he flies with them in the field. However, just not this dog, immersed in his virtual world.

6.   This dog can fly in any visibility condition, any time of the day, even at night with Night vision camera, even through zero visibility of fogs and clouds with OSD enabled, even through tunneled spaces at night. This Dog is only obstructed by a blind wall which surprises him or an innocent obstruction which falls prey to it by accidentally getting in its path.

7.   In reality this dog gets bored in clear open spaces but enjoys thoroughly within obstructions, buildings and trees and rules this world.

8.   Since this dog is not restricted to the VLOS like the rest of category this is the only dog that has every potential to be of risk or nuisance to public if he chooses to be reckless.

9.   Because of the reach of this dog, Public is threatened when knowingly or unknowingly he gets reckless, when he becomes a peeping tom, Invade property, invades privacy, he bangs into innocent obstructions in his flight patch, threatens the manned aviation by being near its flight path, buzzes over building or public unnerving them below.

10.   Even the DGCA is not worried for the Model Aircraft without Payload and its recreational flying if you read the draft.

11.   Because this dog in every one of us can fly from anywhere unrestricted, some us have even become so delusional that they are now so allergic to any form of control. He thinks this style of flying is "The Recreational Flying" and with least concern for the nuisances to others has come into a mode of one might say care a hoots for others.

12.   Some of us with this dog are even worried that he will be left with the Commercial Route to fend for themselves.

Continuing from the previous reply #403.

Reality is as long as this dog is happy inside his secluded favorite forest or Empty Stadium or Building without being nuisance to others, he does not even need a UIN as no one is going to come and search for him there.

Till such time this dog does not create a storm in Real World Spectator Sports Arena in near future his recreational activity will be reduced to, just his personal fooling around in his favorite forest so long as he is not a nuisance to others. If ever he gets out he will be caged as nuisance to others.

Only way he can get out is for a Commercial Purpose with permission of all stakeholders of the property and law. Even the R&D and code development is indoor and has commercial angle.

Apart from the above fooling around in the forest, there is nothing-recreational left in the activity of this dog. The moment he gets his head out from there even above the tree line in his forest any where his every activity has the potential to be of commercial nature. Some which are as under.

1.   Personal holiday scenic photography has the potential for advertising campaign publication.

2.   His own property photography too has the potential for advertisement and commercial angle.

3.   His personal Sports Photography has every potential for advertisement campaign for the sports goods in use or the sportsman.

4.   Even the personal video publication has the potential for monetization.

5.   Every Photograph he takes has the potential for commercial use.

With the weight of the upcoming Geospatial Information Bill, If ever he decides to raise his head above the forest tree line he will be pushed back into the tree cover for fear of law or into the commercial route.


With this Dog who has such a huge potential for every commercial arena in immediate future and with the risk so high, I wonder why anyone would be still be fooling around and wasting his time in this area for recreationals outside his forest/tunnel flying without a commercial interest and commercial route.

here is a classic example of phantom junkies and the idiots who are causing the damage to our hobby

People like this

What the heck is he trying to do with his life? 

He is a vlogger. Very popular on youtube.

 

I dont know how people can tolerate such videos, and watch them. 
i was, just when the video will end ?

Quote from: manojswizera on May 24, 2016, 10:04:48 PM
I dont know how people can tolerate such videos, and watch them. 
i was, just when the video will end ?

Not a new thing actually, if you follow few youtube vloggers you will find that everyone of them have DJI Phantom, and how recklessly they use it. Most of the people actually aren't aware or they are just worried more about the "Cool" shots. And the people who criticise these acts are usually abused by the vlogger's followers! These people are just hopeless! Even losing one drone won't matter to them as they have the YouTube money at their dispense!

hey guys had spoken to mumbaikar nikhil who owns the blog he is very understanding and has agreed to pull down the dji part of the video as he has so many followers and he understands the hobby part and dgca rules which i told him he is ready to support us
thank you

That's better. A few months ago I also messaged an NRI who took (admittedly breathtaking) videos of various Landmarks in India and got a decent amount of publicity in the media. He was not aware of the rules and agreed to tone down media interviews after I messaged him because if the authorities noticed it would cause problems for the rest of the fliers. He didn't take down the videos though. NRIs think they are above law because they stay out of India. Its good that Customs has restricted bringing drones from abroad as part of baggage.

Superb job Rohit. 

And a big thank you to Nikhil to understand the issue and supporting our cause. 

Quote from: santanucus on May 25, 2016, 09:25:15 AMCustoms has restricted bringing drones from abroad as part of baggage.

Drones sir? i think you meant multirotor or a big RC Toy?

Quote from: satyagupta on May 25, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
Drones sir? i think you meant multirotor or a big RC Toy?

When I say "Drone", I mean it sir I use the official terminology of the Government of India.

I don't think we should pretend any longer that multirotors are not popularly called "drones". That's self-deceiving. US National Drone Championships and Dubai Drone Prix have been held this year. They were not exactly messing with those military staff, were they?

As for the new inclusion in Customs Baggage Rules, see Notification No. 31/2016 here: http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2016-17/cen/cusnt3116.pdf

They use the term "Drone" officially. Now if we bring a multirotor and try to explain them that we did not declare it because drone is something used by US in Afghanistan which looks like a plane and these are mere multirotors, they will probably put us behind bars.  

So no more point in pretending we don't know anything about drone. It is officially in Govt. of India's terminology. It is what people around the world use. And we should accept that or face the consequence of our "ignorance".

Continuing from Reply # 404 The reply which I had PMed to Rohit for the right question he asked me, I am posting here.

If you ask me as far as I know, there is actually no differentiation left between the military grade drone and the hobby grade drones left in modern times in terms of their capability, performance, usage, wt class, payload, ruggedness or in terms of which one can outperform the other. If you ask me the hobby grades have capabilities to out perform the military grade ones multiple times over now a days.

That's also with no denial to the fact that R&D of military drones are greatly depended on open source, free thinking developers in the hobby scene.

The differentiation now is only left in the intent of the operator to what purpose he is intending to use its capabilities. As long as the both military and civilian grade UAS retains the same capability in terms of surveillance and potential or to effect a lethal package. They will continue to be called for eternity as "DRONES". "That's the irony of the whole situation".

"Cut to the chase and long story short"

As long as this is going to be the situation for eternity, its now left to the operator of these so called drones to act responsibly and use these in only those spaces where with prior permission of all stake holders and law where you have reasonably established the legitimacy of the hobby activity in which you are involved in or for the purpose of commercial activity you desires to employ these for your own cause of sufficient legitimacy in legality aspects.

That would be the exact same case even after when we manage to establish the most simplest process for obtaining that golden number, or if when majority don't cooperate with DGCA and law traces you, comes to your home with folded hands, hands you over the golden number and the law pleads with you that you paste it on your Drone. (That's in reply to the query of @ voice of deaf at post #400)

http://www.diyphotography.net/can-we-stop-calling-them-drones-theyre-just-rc-helicopters-with-a-camera/


http://bestbeginnerquadcopters.com/quadcopter-vs-drone/


"drone" its juss a fancy word used so as to get the attention of people nthng else by the word and calling it drone it doesnt become drone
thank you sundaram sir

I Agree with that view point too.  

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Did anyone file a RTI to know the situation of these guidelines?
What if I take my own quad abroad? Will I be banned from getting my own items back into the country?

@Rathi while leaving the country just declare the products your carrying with customs. There won't be much issue getting it back.

Dear members,

We have submitted detailed comments to the DGCA on their draft guidelines. For the benefit of all, our comments are available at this link: https://www.scribd.com/doc/313547630/TRA-UAV-UIN-Guideline-Comments

Some of our suggestions pertaining to aero modelling and recreational use of UAs are:

Registered aero modelling clubs
1. The DGCA should register aero modelling clubs based on certain eligibility criteria. Flights by members within the premises of such clubs may be considered as recreational and may further be exempt from the altitude limitation (200 ft AGL) applicable to recreational flights. 

2. The DGCA may also permit aero modelling clubs to adopt community based safety standards and permit flights by members to be regulated viz such guidelines as opposed to any generic guidelines prescribed by the regulator.

3. Members of such registered aero modelling clubs to be allowed to attach payloads to model aircrafts so long as  they are in line with the community based safety guidelines.

Miscellaneous
4. Prior intimation of flights need not be made to the Local Administration for recreational flying of Micro UAs below 200ft.

5. The guidelines should be amended to clarify that age limit of 18 years shall not apply to Nano UAs and for Micro UAs flown for recreational purposes below 200ft AGL. The limit may be relaxed to 13 years.

6. There should not be an omnibus restriction on payloads for recreational flights. The DGCA may issue a general list of approved payloads such as light cameras. A model aircraft fitted with a camera for personal photography should be classified as recreational.

7. Insurance requirement should not apply to UAs weighing less than 2kg flown for recreational purposes.

We hope this leads to something! Your comments are welcome.

Thanks
Anirudh Rastogi,
TRA

Quote from: TRA on May 28, 2016, 06:04:19 PM
6. There should not be an omnibus restriction on payloads for recreational flights. The DGCA may issue a general list of approved payloads such as light cameras. A model aircraft fitted with a camera for personal photography should be classified as recreational.

Since TRA is a Law Firm, you should be aware that any suggestion of photography from a UAV contradicts the proposed Geospatial Information bill. Unless an exception clause is kept in that bill, DGCA won't be able to do anything about it.

Thanks for bringing this up. It contradicts a bill, which is not law yet. We are commenting on the bill as well from the perspective of UA operations. It is important to have certain end-use linked exceptions to the GIR Bill.