Maybe best policy is to keep mouth shut and carry on regardless.
Not a good solution, but probably the most workable one in our India.

Well said sir, Works most of the time very well. asking permission to fly is like asking for trouble. we electric people can just say that its a toy and we make it for college as a project. and the cops here has more problem to deal with than a thermocole plane flying in a lonely ground on a Sunday afternoon.

P.S: everything was fine until people stopped looking this as a hobby and the views changed more into money making. and its us Sunday flyer who pay the price.!!!

Ashok.P

posting ones flying activites,, here,, is it a good idea ? if thing go south could this information be used against you ? 

Just thinking aloud,,

anybody !! any thoughts  ??

Gusty sir, in that case this whole forum is substantial and incriminating evidence against all of us. Plus FB too 

Neatly summarized the mind set prevailing. its no different here too.

http://www.suasnews.com/2014/10/31872/u-s-uas-airspace-integration-stumbling-blocks/

1. Empirical knowledge has taken a backseat to self-aggrandizing.

2. FAA is not using the scientific method

3. Manned interests "feelings" (AOPA, ALPA, HAI)

4. DOD vendors pushing their products and agenda.

5. Not cooperating with the European airspace integration effort

6. Not recognizing the rest of the world's work (as the FAA mantra has always been the U.S. is leading the way.)

7. Domestic advocacy groups will not work with European groups. In spite of the fact, the European groups are years ahead of them.

8. Domestic advocacy groups don't have the community in mind. Executive committees call the shots, and the members appear to come up short.

9. No one hold the FAA accountable for the dysfunction

10. The community believes someone else is acting in their best interest.

11. The notion that common sense will prevail in FAA rulemaking.

12. Private "public" rulemaking process.

13. The notion that it is all about safety

*If the DOD vendors don't want you on the UAS ARC, you don't get on the UAS ARC. If they don't like what you write in the standards groups, they rewrite it. If you don't like what they write they dismiss it. I know, I've been through it. Anyone (folks with scruples) who doesn't go along with the disenfranchisement program (advocates for small business and the public) is marginalized.

I feel FAA or america in general has to come out of their big brother attitude and accept the world's standards, like stop being AWG instead of SWG, Miles for KM's, etc. Maybe then the european airspace newest proposal for the air traffic management like, to reduce the vertical seperation [correct if I am wrong, as that was the agenda of discussion/program on the discovery channel that I viewed some time ago] is kind of acceptable as the avionics/electronics are far more than capable to handle such things [atleast that is in the proposal, agian if i am not wrong here of i learnt].

For manned aircrafts being at threat from the uav/uas, lets an another view at keeping at safe. Say what if the manned aircraft hits an uav/uas and the uas/uav looses its airworthiness and kills or hurts and comes anywhere near to this threat at the ground level or anywhere during the crash sequence. Is it that only the people who are considered [super]humans who deserve a better life than the humble ground dwellers? or is it like only the manned air borne people the ultimate living beings? or is it that much of a threat of an humble aeromodel/hobby craft doing a few feet [maybe a couple of hundred of feet] that is not considered good enough? adding to the least the advancement of the hobby science, probably being the source of inspiration for uav/uas as we key in today.

I am not against the safety aspect, but very much want to comply more than it asks far. But at the cost of killing some good thing in the name of regulations to help a few establishments who can kind of make a killing, at least we can expect/imagine by the things are moving forward.. thanks to the internet/infotech, the things are more and transparent and clearer for even the remotely located thinker who would have not been known otherwise ever in his lifetime. lets see how it will proceed and keep our motto clear and crisp to defend ourselves for such threats, again if any! I believe, DGCa is/was/might kind of under pressure to put out the doc that is worrying the most of us, but it has not really pin pointed our hobby as the direct threat, but a directive of the authoritative figure they have and also to keep any future announcements of some very ambitious org's who want to make it commercial, without contacting/complying the concerned regulators. we all know and discussed, who what why when and how 'they' started it all. Let us not alienate ourselves from them, by speaking against them without knowing their real interests behind the release doc. Again, this is just my point of view, not a commandment as of any sort

The model can easily get sucked into the jet's air intake. Not being flesh & blood like a bird, but having metal parts, it sure will be a major problem.

Frankly, the only practical way of really enforcing rules:

Have designated fields
Have licensing system (like BMFA's A & B certificate) Until a flier has an A Certificate, he cannot fly alone
And, here's where many will want to slay me - ban drones, multirotors and all GPS assisted models 

Such specific rules which need model inspections etc is going to be out of governments interests.

In the US .Im not sure but commercial airspace starts at 400feet apart from airport airspaces. Many full scale fliers cry about it but it's a wise thing and best easy way to regulate airspace between hobby models etc and manned. dgca may not have even thought of rcplanes in their notice but only of multis. And as for UAVs God himself would be confused on how to regulate it. UAV is a very very wide term.

Safety !! esp flying within airfd zone is perfectly alright !!

but i go with what sandy has flagged, DOD and wannabe DOD companies have instigated this coz , hobby FPV fliers are doing (a) Better than them (b) 1000 times cheaper than them

All they have to do is raise the question of safety and stop hobby FPV fliers, in that wake they, i dont think can stop Within visual range' hobby fliers

Free sprit will find a place and way to fly

IMHO

Quote from: sanjayrai55 on October 17, 2014, 12:43:06 PM
ban drones, multirotors and all GPS assisted models 

Even if its banned, how is it going to be checked and implemented?
How is the easy availability of the products(locally/internationally) going to be checked?
Infact how is the current 'ban' being implemented 

Instead of banning, requiring amateur radio licenses to operate GPS assisted models would be better(along with the model flying licenses/dedicated flying air space you mentioned). Many unallocated frequencies such as the 900mhz,434mhz and 1200mhz too I guess is being used by flyers for flying Autopilot Systems which comes under amateur ratio category(except 900mhz) so it would be logical too.

Im least worried about flying in sight or out of sight being banned, because as he ^^ said

Quote from: rcpilotacro on October 17, 2014, 01:57:56 PM
Free sprit will find a place and way to fly

IMHO

Instead I see this as an opportunity here for us to get involved in the decision making process so that we can have favorable rules for the hobby. Silence/apathy is only going to make it harder for everyone, its just a matter of time on how and when someone is going to be hassled as if the customs/wpc and high priced resale/non availability and long delivery times werent enough.

I expected AMAI to be in the forefront of this issue, and I hope they are doing something in the background

The hyped up claims of Drone delivery being nothing but a big farce in the backdrop of existing scenario of total absence of  i.e. without capability of cloud computing and collective autonomous proximity awareness among the wide spectrum of operators and delivery platforms operating strictly in predesignated safe corridors of Civil UAS flying. Not withstanding the same the ambitious ill prepared fool hardy claims of few like Amazon and the recent unfavorable verdicts of judiciary quoted under in the scenario of total absence of any legislation's in this area may have instigated the issue of such blanket ban advisory riders by the aviation authorities which may not at all have the hobby RC fliers in their spectrum of observation.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/commercial-drones-are-completely-legal-a-federal-judge-ruled
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-is-trying-to-erase-the-1981-document-that-legalized-hobby-drones?trk_source=recommended
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-the-faa-purposefully-trying-to-confuse-everyone-about-its-drone-rules?trk_source=recommended

Today's news 16 Oct 2014 Prosecutors drop charges against drone hobbyists
http://www.suasnews.com/

Nevertheless the manned aviation industry stands to loose in billions in this area which had been it's forte till now due to the development of unmanned technology in field of Aerial photography, video-graphy, Geo survey, Aerial Photo-mapping applications, GIS Services, Photogrammetry, DEM/DTM Generation, Topographic Mapping, Orthophotomosaic Imagery. Since development of software has been tremendous in these areas of application and we have been solely dependent on manned aviation capabilities and satellite imageries for all these years for such applications. Boom in civil application of unmanned operation in these areas is going to be exponential.  

Manned aviation Industries is bound to be reduced merely to a passenger carrier service if not unmanned passenger carrier service, if the development in this field is not kept at check. Future of Aviation ( Not only Combat aviation) is unmanned.

Present development around the world is merely the vested interest of a few who want to cash in on the development of upcoming Billion Dollar industry at play and to be part of the loop.

I think first aviation authorities need to pull up its own socks in the areas of its current domain before trying to get any more which it cannot manage into it or it should have a more broader outlook in this aspect if it really wants to be of any significance.

To really think that a real hacker is going to be shit scared of any of the legislation's of cyber police authorities is like being an ostrich with head in the sand.

Absolutely.. A Free spirit will always find a place and way to fly.

Damage to the full scale travelling at such high speed is going to be no different if hit/ ingested a bird or a SUAS. This is just a misnomer and false propaganda that damage to the full scale would be proportionately exponential if hit by SUAS in comparison to a bird.

"" The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) admits it has no rules and regulations in place for controlling the manufacture, sale, purchase and most importantly, the flight, of drones.

"We do not have any regulations in place or guidelines to adhere to for people who want to fly drones or UAVs as a hobby," said Charan Das, the deputy director, DGCA (Airworthiness). "The ones used by the military are controlled by the military. Flying drones in public spaces is an issue in the domain of police and local administration. The police should be looking after it and not the DGCA. "

Your questions answered-The 400 foot limit for model aircraft.

In the interview with Deputy Director John McGraw, Mr. McGraw seemed to have very little to say about the aeromodeling exemption in the FAA reauthorization bill. He also made a worrisome comment about a 400 foot limit for models.

Rich Hanson, leader of the AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs:

There are a lot of unanswered question as to how the MA provisions in the reauthorization bill will be enacted, and we are still very much in the early stages of working through these issues. Shortly after President Obama signed the Bill we presented our position to the Unmanned Aircraft Program Office. The UAPO responded by advising they are waiting for clarification from FAA's legal staff. It is clear to us that this Act reflects the view that aeromodeling is a relatively harmless activity and expresses Congress' recognition of the level of safety the community has achieved through voluntary compliance with a community-based set of safety guidelines. As we move forward we will seek a viable means of enacting this legislative provision and establishing a mutually agreed upon set of criteria to ensure the continued safe operation of model aircraft in the national airspace.

Mr. McGraw's mention of a 400' ceiling is somewhat of a carryover from the guidelines established in AC 91-57 and has been FAA's premise in terms of separating small UAS from the manned aircraft environment. During the crafting of the language in the MA amendment to the reauthorization bill the inclusion of a 400' criteria was considered. However, AMA resisted this limitation with the belief that it is overreaching, unnecessary and potentially detrimental to the hobby. Ultimately the congressional leadership agreed with the AMA and elected not to include this restriction as part of the minimum safety criteria stated in the Bill.

AMA's 75 years of experience tells us that MA operations above 400' pose little to no risk to the manned aircraft community. The only time this activity is of concern is when model aircraft are operated in close proximity to airports. As such, AMA stands by its 3mi/400' safety criteria established in the AMA National Safety Code. Though there are other mitigation measures that may need to be considered, AMA will continue to advocate to maintain the aeromodeling community's access to the national airspace.

Http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2012/03/08/your-questions-answered-the-400-foot-limit-for-model-aircraft/

By Antonio Antenucci and Rebecca Rosenberg

Manhattan prosecutors Wednesday dismissed charges against two hobbyists who were busted last July for flying their drones too close to an NYPD helicopter near the George Washington Bridge.

The felony reckless endangerment raps against Wilkins Mendoza, 34, and Remy Castro, 23, were dropped because they couldn't prove the case without a reasonable doubt, prosecutors said.

Castro still faces federal charges for the incident, said Assistant District Attorney Nabilah Hossain.

"The FAA has filed federal charges against the defendant," she said. "The case would be more properly handled by them."

Castro's attorney Michael Kushner said the federal charges were purely administrative.

"It's an FAA proceeding to determine whether or not air space was violated based upon the officer's statements that it was," he explained. "We commend the DA's office for actually taking the affirmative steps to dismiss the case."

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/prosecutors-drop-charges-against-drone-hobbyists/

I would say this is a cse of inept prosecution, and a travesty of justice. This was a nasty accident waiting to happen

Though this was the failed case of NYPD helicopter actually chasing a hobbyist drone, proved to be true from the video evidence from the drone recordings and voice recordings of heli pilots which failed miserably to prove the alleged charges of drone endangering the heli by heading on a collision course reclessly as charged other way around and did not stand ground in court of law.

Yes such ambiguity in understandings and accidents waiting to happen could have been avoided if not for the mental leathargy of authorities to accept the advancements and frame suitable guidlines and frameworks for mutual coexistance and operation in all these years.

Sir by passing a superficial advisory at this juncture to ban all activity may make you and me think twice before launching or models in air but if authorities think its going stop Osama bin Laden from flying one more plane laden with explosives on to a stratigically important building then they are living in fools paradise.

Perhaps 'Skull & Crossbones' and 'DANGER' stickers
Compulsory for all models.
Like on cigarette packets...
May reduce the number of flyers as much as it has reduced the number of smokers...

Rolf reduced the number if smokers......

Sandy sir, any RC flyin model used by terrorists - the worst nightmare possible

Dude Chintal, this is not acceptable you mis-using the abbreviations everytime.. this time it is 'Rolf' instead of rofl, and before it was lmoa or something like that instead of lmao.. i almost ended up twice to about to google them, but realised the typos... hehe.. [PS: the above/before scripture has to be taken light heartedly.. 'nothing serious about it' ] btw, i second your point... Iyer sir, seriously they have? I have my smoking friends who do not care even if you present them with real rotting skull and bones of dead humans.. that bad they are when they need a smoke.. addicted. period.

And coming back to the topic, again my personal view and opinion.. If we[dgca, faa, technologists, hobbyists, etc] cannot accept advancement of the new technologies, then as you guys are fearing, the evil minded folks will take them in and will keep us on a constant fearful run.. so let the rc/drones develop as it has happened or else, face the evil music.. I am stressing again, safety is foremost and will never be compromised by the hobbyists nor any users ,regardless of commercial interests, hobby interests or whatever sane purposes. But a valid authorising/licensing body is needed, minus any possible associated politics that may jump in with it. In the early years of infotech boom, many feared about going jobless, but what has happened now? jobless or jobs with less folk's to occupied? If people cannot move on accepting new tech, or any advancement of humankind, will be left behind and laughed at. Better get the a$$ up and move with time. In that case, I personally do not like the way my city, Bangalore/Bengaluru has progressed on, but thinking in another perspective it is quite acceptable by a larger interests and progression. It is like making peace with oneself and accommodate others like they like to be treated alike.

Did notice late Sanjay Sir.   The erstwhile Yawning Tiger seems to have been woken up now and its menacing showing off its teeth and claws. We seem to be missing what caused this rude awakening.  

This, Sandy sir, is the new incarnation so as to tackle all the villainy afoot in these troubled times 

 

Yada yada  hi dharmasya, and all that....