Hey Guys ,
Just as a matter of interest and  improve I am interested in knowing  what is it that we are missing that you guys  are buying from Hobby city and other sites , may be we need to improve . If you could be frank enough to tell what you bought we might consider adding some of the products to our inventory 

Sai

Hello uncle,

My first suggestion..Hyperion G3 Lipos..reasonably priced and also well worth the money..25C discharge and 5C charging rates makes it the best in class Lipo today.. Additional advantage is 4 times as much life as traditional Lipos.. So these guys are almost similar to A123s except for the discharge curves!!

- Chan

Quote from: chanvivek on May 14, 2009, 05:37:14 PM
Hello uncle,

My first suggestion..Hyperion G3 Lipos..reasonably priced and also well worth the money..25C discharge and 5C charging rates makes it the best in class Lipo today.. Additional advantage is 4 times as much life as traditional Lipos.. So these guys are almost similar to A123s except for the discharge curves!!

- Chan

Hey Chan ,
Thanks for this suggestion but my take on this is as below
Checked with KONG POWER  who have a better knowledge and brand equity than many co's including Hyperion as they are a specialist LIPO company  about this claim of  a 5 C charge rate for a 25 C discharge battery with 4 times longer life and here is their response reproduced below :
Quote :
Dear Sai,

Chargers supporting 5C charging would cost more than 300USD.   

if the charger is not 5C charging approved, the charger will easily over-charge the battery and damage it.

We have 25C batteries. even our battery can support 2C charge or above, but we never recommend it.   

If your customer use some chinese made charger to do 5C charging, we don't know what will happen.

Usually customers blame for battery first even before they inspect their charger.


not even Hyperion themselve has 5C approved charger.   how would they know their battery can take the 5C charging from any charger in the market?   most chargers are made in china.

look forward to hearing from you.

Spencer
un quote


Frankly I am also very  skeptical of these claims by the manufacturer :
1) how do you  substantiate the of no damage due to high charge rate
2) LIPOS normally last for around 1.5 to 2 years  so how can you justify 6-8 year life for a lipo when the technology itself is not that old.
3) charging is a chemical process of ionization  it can be enhanced by increasing current flow but enhanced ionization is surely be detrimental to the battery in  further cycles of charging  hence not recommended for any battery . This  a known fact for so many years  even with Nimh and Nicd batteries

SO BEING A USER OF LIPO'S NOW FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS  AND SCIENTIFICALLY I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT HIGH CHARGE RATES ENHANCES BATTERY LIFE 


DOES HYPERION OFFER ANY REPLACEMENT IF THE BATTERIES ARE DAMAGED DUE TO 5 C CHARGING AND THEIR CLAIM OF 4 TIME LIFE IS NOT ACHEIVED OR IF THE CHARGER IS DAMAGED DUE TO THE HIGH CHARGE RATE

I WILL RATHER BELIEVE KONG POWER WHO OFFER A 90 DAY WARRANTY ON THEIR BATTERIES .it shows the confidence in their products.

I have been in the commercial world long enough to fall for such claims from leading brands . 25 C discharge is OK but 5 C charge rate leading to enhanced life is a no! as per me
SAI

5C charging rates just implies that we can charge the battery at 5 times the rate at which we charge normal Lipos.  So we dont need a special charger.  Even the BC6 can charge a 6s pack upto 5 Amps.  So lets talk about foamy battery packs.  Suppose I am using a 3s 1000 mAh, then now on the field I charge for about 30 mins after a 10 min flight..  So if I have a Hyperion pack, I can charge that at 5 Amps and can get it done in 6 to 8 mins.    There is no question of overloading the battery pack as we have restricted the voltage at 3s in the charger (12.6V max).  That is, we charge a 1000 mAh 3s Lipo the same way we charge a 5000 mAh 3s Lipo.  So the claim by Kong Power that there are no approved 5C chargers is difficult to accept  .  The life span claimed by the manufacturer again is under debate and only time testing can tell us how it goes.  As long as we dont strain the battery, then the life should be good enough.  And if the manufacturer claims that 5C charge rates will not strain the packs, then I would definitely believe them if they are reputed!  And moreover, Hyperion is world renowned for their series of chargers.  I really do accept that charging a 5000 mAh pack at 5C requires a charger capable of handling 25A which would cost you roughly around 20k INR.  But there are Hyperion charges for $200 that would be able to do the job at 10Amps and there are numerous chinese chargers that can achieve the same at a much lower price.  If I am able to trust my charger to charge my 3000 mAh Zippys at 7.4V (8.4V max) 3 Amps charging setup, then I should be able to definitely trust it in charging a 1000 mAh Hyperion pack at 3 Amps also and that is applicable for 5 Amps too.

I would also do a test and a review of those packs once I receive them and would also post it here.  Hyperion also offers electronic items at 40% of the original cost, if anything happens to the original.  So if we burn out a motor, then that motor is replaced with a new one at just 40% of the original cost!  So Hyperion also offers excellent customer support!

Check this link on RCG for a long running thread without any complaints and there have been high amp charging also without loading the battery (that is without getting the pack hot)!!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1029818

Moreover, these Lipos use nano technology and hence the revolutionized pattern of charging and longetivity!

And the other addictive factor is the pricing.  These guys cost only as much as or lesser than Thunder Power and are comparably priced to their chinese counter parts.  TP is the best in the world Lipo and they recommend 2C charging on their packs!!

So let me test out a few packs (which are on the way) and would keep all of you updated on how it goes.

Nothing against Kong Power though! They are a class apart.. They have explosion proof and heavy duty.  No doubt!! The only addiction on the Hyperion is the pricing and 5C charge rates.  I am a guy who does extensive charging on the field and I cant really afford multiple battery packs to keep up continous flying.  Hence this looks like a better solution.  I am getting a 1600 mAh 3s pack for foamies and a 4000 mAh 4s pack for my Yak from Indian Hobbies (got it at the almost the same price as aircraft-world.. so no issues against indian hobby shops!!).. was a bit scared on shipping down expensive Lipos!! But there are people in Chennai who have done that safely as well!!

When Lipolys were first introduced, people were really skeptic about starting off with them.  Even today, people are scared to handle Lipos in our field!!

Mr. Sai broke the prototype in Chennai!! He also showed that Lipolys are safe!! I followed suit! 

So why cant we test this out before we decide whether they are worth the money!!

I always like to try out new products and technology and am a firm believer that everything undergoes constant improvement and would never achieve saturation!!

And G3 Lipos would also be available on Indian Hobbies soon at the same prices as that of aircraft-world, so then we can validate Hyperion's claims ourselves!! (not that I dont trust them now!)

We should also try and get some manufacturers onto this forum (like RCG where each Vendor can substantiate their claims on new products)to highlight their products.  Let me see if I can get any Hyperion person to validate their claims!

Cheers!!  !! I sincerely hope that I didnt turn this into a brand war!!

Regards,
Chan

And back to the original subject of what we would like to see in local stores, I would like to see lots of foamie/EPP kits. People should not really have to struggle with sourcing the needed parts and building them (unless you really enjoy that).

These foamies make the best demo planes, even in crowded areas.  Even though they are not accident free, the damage done by them should be minimal    This is probably the best way to get more people interested in this hobby.

Sai - You should post links and pics to your new foamie kits.

Kong Power don't say that there are no approved chargers they say 5 c approved chargers are expensive around $300 +.

I cannot accept your logic that charging a 3000 mah pack at 3 amps is the same as charging a 600 mah pack at 3 Amps
When you charge a 3000 mah pack @ 3 Amp the battery has the capacity to accept the electrical flow coming in
When you charge a 600 mah pack @ 3 amps the battery obviously will be strained as it obviously does not have the capacity to accept the high charge rate .

I will accept a manufacturers claim if they are willing to put the money where their mouth is I dont mind charging my pack at 5 C if I get a written assurance that should the battery or charger be spoilt I will be compensated.

This is no brand war but  a pure discussion on an unprovable  claim by a manufacturer .

If it is a question of trying and finding out then I would say any high discharge battery can be charged at a high rate .Possibly in that case any high discharge battery is capable of high charging rates

Going by What you say I am seriously thinking of charging a Kong Power 25 C @ 5 C and seeing how they work may be it is nothing unique in case of Hyperion it is just that they are using it as a USP by calling it G 3 .

I also wish to state here that this has nothing to do with where you buy from and me as a seller but is more to do with me as a user.

sai

Quote from: anwar on May 15, 2009, 01:18:00 PM
And back to the original subject of what we would like to see in local stores, I would like to see lots of foamie/EPP kits. People should not really have to struggle with sourcing the needed parts and building them (unless you really enjoy that).

These foamies make the best demo planes, even in crowded areas.  Even though they are not accident free, the damage done by them should be minimal    This is probably the best way to get more people interested in this hobby.

Sai - You should post links and pics to your new foamie kits.

Sure these foamies don't cause much damage, as even balsa planes. But any size propeller will cut pretty badly, foamy plane or not . But thats a different topic.

Sure would like to see a lot more foamy kits and the shock flyer types expecially.

Hello uncle,

I definitely agree that a battery would be strained under 5C charges under normal circumstances. But if the cells are manufactured taking into account that the packs are going to be charged at 5C, then I dont see why this is not possible especially since LiFes (A123s) are being charged at even 10C!!

But we cannot compare the discharge and charge rates becuase 20C discharge packs are being charged at 1C! So a 25C discharge pack does not mean it can be charged at higher rates unless the cells are specially designed to handle that rate of current inflow.

We can definitely try and charge the Kong Power packs at 2C first provided that we use a temperature probe to monitor the rise in the battery pack temperature and then gradually increase the charging rate.

There are instances when Zippys have been charged at 2C rates!!

We definitely have to experiment a bit!! And by the time we are done with our experimentation, I am sure many others here would also be benefitted by our findings!  Lets see how it goes..

Chan

Hi all,
The rechargeable batteries of any kind is a basic accumulator. The difference is what sort of chemicals is used to store the potence.

The fact which Mr.Sai is telling is right. If any sort of accumulator is charged with higher rating then there is every chance of bursting and damage.

WHY??? :
Ok let me put it in this way, any battery or potence source has an internal resistance, When it is charged the resistance come into picture
lets say the resistance is "R" nad the default/designed charging rate is "I amp" then
energy (heat)= (I*I*R*T)/J

T is time and j is jules constant.

Assume you have 2 identical batteries you charge first with 1 amp an other with 5 amp.

so the heat energy generate will be in 25 times than  1 amp charge. so can you imagine

I agre you can do it but there is always a danger.

Back to the main subject:
People say to get some foamies, low cost kits, that's OK, i would suggest to get the product which are small, cheap and and can be purchased in quantities and is very important in building planes, some eg. are: push rods, horns, hinges, clevis, props of various sizes, glue epoxy. Although these product are small but important in building the kits and which is not available easily. modelers use substitute and search for substitute for these products
Sandeep

That's the whole point with the ARF kits that I was mentioning. Most of these "small" things come with the kit, not just the pre-cut foam sheets ! 

No need to search... no need to substitute....  just assemble and fly !  What you need is basic building stuff (tools, glue, tape etc), but there are kits that even come with the epoxy, tapes and velcro !

And hopefully fly in front of crowds   The only thing to remember is to cut throttle to zero if you are getting to a danger situations (as the props are the main danger)

Hi All,

Back to fast charging of Lipos... I bought a 850 mAh 3s Hyperion 3G Lipo.. First charge was at 0.8A.. The Lipo was already 80% charged when I got it.. Charging over in no time... Next I discharged the battery using my BC-6 charger to 3V per cell... After this process was over, I again charged the battery, this time at 2C (1.6A).. charging with balancing took about 30 mins... Now I again discharged the battery completely and then charged it at a little more than 4C (3.5A)... Charging over in 12 mins 30 secs!! Flat!! Fully charged and balanced.. I was amazed... No heating at all.. Perfectly balanced as well.. I can charge this pack at even 4A without any risk of blowing it up!! Cheers to a breakthrough in Lipo technology... Who needs A123 when these are here??  The life span is yet to be checked though.. But there is a review in RCGroups which mentions that these packs have been used for more than 80 cycles with increase in power after each cycle...

Now I can just have one pack... fly..charge..fly..charge!! 12 mins charging times is nothing! That was at 4C and from a completely drained pack!! When flying, we seldom hit the Low Voltage Cutoff!! And mostly my packs would have atleast 3.5V/cell once I land!! So I would have charge times of less than 10 mins on the field!!

- Chan

great news chan bhaiya. hope to see the tx pics sooooooooooooooooooooooooooon 

Chan , would be interesting to see the battery pack life with this rate of charging and discharging. you would be eating up cycles fairly fast  call me skeptical but my hunch  the economics of using 2 battery packs and this might even out on the longer term as you would not be stressing the packs the way you are. It seems to beat  laws of Physics and chemistry 
As they say the answer only time will tell  
sai

Yeah..true.. but I would definitely keep you posted.. Am planning on maintaining a chart to track the number of cycles and this would be my experimental pack.. All my charging would be at 5C rates from now on.. And discharging would be only in the planes.. Would keep posting as I progress with the cycles.. Expecting 100+ cycles atleast before it starts to lose retaining capacity..There are claims of 200+ cycles but lets time test it!!

- Chan

thinking of going for an estarter with brushless setup might buy hyperion battery after chan bhaiya's confirmation until then i have some lipo's left

Sure will look forward to your reports and updates Chan especially on the cost economics of using the same battery a 100 times as against using 2 nos cheaper batteries  50 time each  that is the  kind of comparison that would make sense .

The other thing that I am skeptical about is that if this really was that kind of path breaking technology then I am surprised that there is not much of a mention of this topic among the top 10 topics in the relevant  sub category in RCG :

http://www.rcgroups.com/batteries-and-chargers-129/.

I  would have expected  such a break through be be a lot hotter discussion topic than it seems to be .  

I hope I am wrong but this sounds to be a lot of smoke without fire as it seems to be defying all known laws of Science .

Sai

Quote from: rcforall on June 23, 2009, 02:00:21 PM
Sure will look forward to your reports and updates Chan especially on the cost economics of using the same battery a 100 times as against using 2 nos cheaper batteries  50 time each  that is the  kind of comparison that would make sense .

Hello Uncle,

The main thing that attracted me to these packs was the cost.  I did not pay much more than the regular packs.  The cost itself is very attractive.  About 10% to 20% more.  But for the 5C charge rates alone, this is compensated.  If I can use this pack 100 times after paying Rs. 1100 (cost including shipping), I more than compensate for the price when comparing to paying Rs. 800 to 900 for a battery that lasts 50 cycles.  For the extra 200 Rs, I get Hyperion brand, 5C charge rates and 25C continous discharge compared to the 20C discharge rates of regular packs.  Even if I particularly charge this at 1C, if at all this leads to better battery life, then for a couple of hundred bucks extra, I now get 25C discharge rate batteries at lesser weight.

Quote from: rcforall on June 23, 2009, 02:00:21 PM
The other thing that I am skeptical about is that if this really was that kind of path breaking technology then I am surprised that there is not much of a mention of this topic among the top 10 topics in the relevant  sub category in RCG :

http://www.rcgroups.com/batteries-and-chargers-129/.

I  would have expected  such a break through be be a lot hotter discussion topic than it seems to be .  

I hope I am wrong but this sounds to be a lot of smoke without fire as it seems to be defying all known laws of Science .

Sai

I just checked RCG.  The RCG forum is listed in a manner that displays recent posts first.  The latest post in the Hyperion Nano Technology LiPos thread was yesterday and hence it was pushed to the 2nd page.  The particular thread has 624 posts in 77 days and 36,030 views.  When we sort the forum according to the number of views, this particular thread is the only one to have 35000+ views in 77 days whereas all the others have taken atleast 200+ days!!  When sorted by the number of replies, it ranks number 9 and again has got that much posts in just 77 days compared to 371 days for its closest rival thread.  This just proves the popularity of that particular thread.

There are always ground breaking technologies popping up.  But few have made it big.  So I can definitely accept your criticism.  But I firmly believe that this might be the future for Lipos since this incorporates Nano technology which definitely defies well know theories of physics and chemistry.  The cell chemistry is designed to handle all these abuses.  A123 packs can take 10C charge rates and also 30C discharges while giving itself a lifetime of more than 5 times that of Lipolys.  When A123s can do it, why not Lipolys???  The chemistry of lipolys have been incorporated using Nano technology to make them more robust.  I would definitely review this pack inside out and post all positives and negatives of it. 

- Chan

Hi all
In continuation of the main topic,i would love to see some good edf jets in our local stores.GWS,xceedrc,alfa,Blitzrc,Sapac etc.whatever,any jet.I for one am always on for a jet.
nabam

And let me add [1] depron flying wings and [2] rc kites !  Hugely popular else where.


Flying Wing combat




RC Kites at Night




RC Kites

I got an RC Kite today :
3 Channel RC EP Carbon Fiber Airframe Zlowest  Bat Plane

Specification:
Length : 623mm
Width :   596mm
Height : 324mm
Weight : ~130g
Flying Weight :   ~230g

LED's included

Not Included
Motor :   2200rpm/v 45W Brushless Motor
ESC : 10A
Battery : 7.4v 12c 450mAh Lipo Battery
Number of Servo: 3
Propeller : 7 x 3.5"
Radio :   3Ch or above with mixing control

The Price of the plane along with LED  around Rs 3500 anyone interested ?

Sai

The Kite looks great...I think it would even be a great indoor bird.. Tempting me a lot!! I already have plans for a Piaget (budget permitting next month) for the VPP and now this pops up    !!  I think I would be better off in some place where there are no RC Shops to tempt me this much!!! !! Ok giving way to temptation.. would drop in this week..

Attaching some pics of the G3 Lipo..

- Chan

Hi Guys,

Had the chance to use the G3 Lipo on a plane this weekend.  It was a 500gm pattern foamie called Supersonic flying on a Dualsky 175W motor with a 10x5 APC prop.  I took one 1300 mAh 3s Hextronix Lipo and this 850 mAh 3s G3 Lipo to the field to test this model.  The test flight was with the 850 mAh pack and the CG was perfect.  After the pre flight checks were done, we did a ROG.. the plane shot off into the air within hardly a feet!!  !! We did a 8 min sortie with mixed throttle control and landed.  With the same pack (without charging), we took off again.. had the same amount of power and did another 2 mins and landed.. put the pack on charge @ 3.5A and switched over to the 1300 pack... There was a noticable drop in power.. though not much.. and it gave us about 10 mins of flying time before dropping power.. by the time this was landed, my G3 was charged fully and ready to fly!! In 10 mins!!  Was impressed and the power was great.. No heating of the pack whatsoever (while flying and also while charging)!!  Had about 4 flights on the G3 pack all with 10 mins charge times..

- Chan